[Sca-cooks] Bread Puzzles

[David Friedman]

Where in the book you link to is the description of the trial we've been 
discussing?

I don't think units matter much, since almost everything is in pounds, 
aside from some marks which, I gather, were half a pound. What mostly 
matter are the ratios.

On 1/28/16 3:34 PM, JIMCHEVAL at aol.com wrote:
> Wow. You folks are sure better at math than I am.
>   
> A few notes:
>   
> I have a link to the original French in my post. Here it is:
> _https://books.google.com/books?id=pLGnkboiV38C&dq=%22pain%20blanc%22%20seti
> er%20denier&pg=PA198#v=onepage&q&f=false_
> (https://books.google.com/books?id=pLGnkboiV38C&dq="pain%20blanc"%20setier%20denier&pg=PA198#v=onepage&q&f=fal
> se)
>   
> There are a few regionalisms in it, but basically it's medieval  French.
>   
> I note elsewhere in the post that it is dangerous to take the measurements
> too literally. These varied enormously across France until the Revolution
> (threatening to behead people does wonders in getting them to fall in line).
> I'm  reasonably sure that the pound and ounces here are in the ballpark of
> our  meaning, but it would take some pretty close study of the Limousin
> weights and  measures in particular to be sure.
>   
> Under the "Leavening" heading. I cite a variety of references which confirm
>   that the term at this point referred to old dough (at least in France).
> The  first reference I've seen to breaking this up comes from Markham (that
> is,  seventeenth century). This and the later French practice of cultivating
> several  generations of leavening makes me think that the use of leavening
> evolved over  time (but was still in its infancy in our period).
>   
> I fully agree about the importance of bolting and sifting (and in fact
> emphasize that in the relative section of my post). In my own case, having
> laboriously sifted blender-ground flour into very white flour I still ended up
> with a brown bread. Ideally however one would use an impact method to grind
> the  flour, in order to remove the bran from the endosperm without mixing
> it all  together.
>   
> (For what it's worth, however, when I made myself some bread with
> completely unsifted home-ground flour, it was delicious.)
>   
> Otherwise, I would like to emphasize that as excited as I was to find this
> particular text, my post goes well beyond it to outline parameters based on
>   various sources that hopefully would bring any attempt to make "medieval"
> bread  closer to what is actually known. I'm grateful for David's
> persistence and for  his and Bear's calculations, but I hope anyone trying to make
> French  medieval-style bread will consider the other options here as well.
>   
> Jim  Chevallier
>
> Contributor, Savoring Gotham
> A Food  Lover's Companion to New York City
> Editor-in-chief: Andrew F. Smith  and Foreword by Garrett Oliver
> https://global.oup.com/academic/product/savoring-gotham-9780199397020?cc=us&
> lang=en
>
>
> In a message dated 1/28/2016 2:58:57 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> t.d.decker at att.net writes:
>
> Very  interesting.
>
> Let's eliminate any weight discrepancies.  The French  livre (or pound) was
> set in 1350 and was retained until replaced by the  metric system.  It
> consists of 16 oz. or 2 marcs (8  oz.).
> ....
> Then there is the question of whether the levain is  hard or soft.  I'm
> going
> to assume a soft leaven of 1:2 flour to  water by weight.  A hard leaven
> needs to be broken apart in a warm  liquid before use.
>
>
>
> This should produce a loaf of roughly  1 lb. 2 oz., a little larger than
> the
> ones described, but still in the  ball park.
>
> I am of the opinion that the smaller amount of liquid is  used to hydrate
> the
> starter no matter what the description says.  I  have encountered a
> description of a modern French baker transporting his  levain, about the
> size
> of a soccer ball, half way around the world.   The levain was used to
> leaven
> commercial batches of bread and recovered  from the dough created, so I
> have
> no reason to doubt Jim's description of  the starter.
>
> ....
>
> I don't know what you used for sieving, but  medieval flour for white bread
> usually went through a coarse sieve, a fine  sieve and a cloth sieve.  That
> last one makes for some very finely  ground flour, but it is labor
> intensive.
>
>
> A transcription of the  original text would be of  interest.
>
> Bear
>
>
>
> .cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
>
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-- 
David Friedman
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/