[Sca-cooks] Trying again: introduction and questions

[Amos Ironbeard]

Ahoy!

Purely as a personal preference, I prefer having the original text 
followed by a translated version with the punctuation kept the same.

If I had to choose one, it would be the translated text with the same 
punctuation as the original.

Amos, Amateur cook from Lochac.

On 28/09/2017 1:13 PM, Julia Szent-Gyorgyi wrote:
> Hello, everyone.
> 
> I tried this about a week ago, but other than two unrelated posts
> (Orange Fool and Chinese vinegars), I have heard nothing but echoing
> silence from this list. Perhaps my message was just too long, and
> people's eyes glazed over long before they got to the end?
> 
> So, short version: I'm Julia Szent-Györgyi, known in the SCA as
> Kolosvari Arpadne Julia. Although I was born in California, my first
> language is Hungarian. Blame Glenn Gorsuch for getting me all nicely
> entangled in early Hungarian cookbooks and their translations. :-)
> 
> I did a quick-and-dirty translation of a short cookbook by
> Szentbenedeki Mihály (Michael of St. Benedict), dated to 1601, and
> Daniel Myers was kind enough to put it right up on Medieval Cookery
> (http://medievalcookery.com/etexts.html?Hungary). Then I found another
> short cookbook (item 25: http://digitalia.lib.pte.hu/?p=1455#toc);
> like the much longer Transylvanian court cookbook that Glenn & co got
> translated, the manuscript is missing its title page, but the 19th
> century editor (Radvánszky) dated it to the last decades of the 16th
> century, based on orthography and contextual clues.
> 
> I've now completed my first pass through this second short cookbook,
> going quite a bit more slowly than for the first one, and writing lots
> of footnotes. There have been many little decisions along the way, but
> the one that's currently on my mind is punctuation.
> 
> Judging by the first recipe, which he gives in a close transcription
> as well as a modernized one, Radvánszky mostly stuck with the
> punctuation (or often, lack thereof) of the manuscript. Do I
> more-or-less stick with this style, and the concomitant occasional
> utter confusion, or do I try to clarify things a bit with periods and
> commas? The first approach has the drawback of confusion, the second
> has the drawback that it adds a layer of interpretation. Which is the
> lesser of two evils?
> 
> Here's that first recipe, in the four versions:
> 
> Close transcription:
> Az Pauat megh keól sẅtni, leuet igÿ keól czinalni, Tengóri szóló es
> Montola keól, ezt ez ketteót iol eószsze keól teórni es hogi megh
> teórik uesse borban, ues fa heat, borsot, meezet egi kis szeókfẅuet is
> hozza, hogÿ osztán feóni teszeód ezeók mind benne feoienek kiket
> feólliẅl megh irtam, az szeókfẅ keues legión, hogÿ megh feónek osztan
> szẅrd az sẅlt paua ala az montolat meg nem keól healni, hanem mind
> heastul teóriek.
> 
> Modernized transcription:
> A pávát meg kell sütni, levét igy kell csinálni: tengeri szőlő és
> mandula köll, ezt az kettőt jól össze kell törni, és hogy megtörik
> vesse borban, vess fahéjat, borsot, mézet egy kis szőkfüvet is hozzá,
> hogy oztán főni tesződ, ezek mind benne föjjenek, kiket fölül megirtam
> az szökfü kevés legyen, hogy megfőnek oztán szürd az sült páva alá, az
> mandulát meg nem kell héjalni, hanem mind héjastúl törjék.
> 
> Translation:
> The peacock should be roasted, its sauce should be made thus: you need
> currants and almonds, mash these two things up well, and after they
> are mashed put them in wine, add cinnamon, pepper, honey and a little
> cloves as well, and when you put it on to cook, these things that I
> listed above should all cook in it the cloves should be scant, after
> they have cooked strain it under the roasted peacock, the almonds do
> not need to be peeled, but should be mashed peels and all.
> 
> Punctuation corrected:
> The peacock should be roasted. Its sauce should be made thus: you need
> currants and almonds; mash these two things up well, and after they
> are mashed, put them in wine. Add cinnamon, pepper, honey, and a
> little cloves as well, and when you put it on to cook, these things
> that I listed above should all cook in it. The cloves should be scant.
> After they have cooked, strain it under the roasted peacock. The
> almonds do not need to be peeled, but should be mashed peels and all.
> 
> ---
> Which version would you prefer in a cookbook translation?
> 
> Julia
> /\ /\
>> *.*<
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-- 
Amos Ironbeard aka Járnskeggi the Mad
http://ironbeard.net
jarnskeggi at ironbeard.net