[Sca-cooks] Trying again: introduction and questions

[James Chevallier]

Hello, everyone.I tried this about a week ago, but other than two unrelated posts(Orange Fool and Chinese vinegars), I have heard nothing but echoingsilence from this list. Perhaps my message was just too long, andpeople's eyes glazed over long before they got to the end?
I'm not sure if you're using paragraphs in your original post, but what I'm getting is a huge mass of undifferentiated text which is, yes, hard to read.


jC


Jim Chevallier
www.chezjim.com




-----Original Message-----
From: Julia Szent-Gyorgyi <jpmiaou at gmail.com>
To: sca-cooks <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Sent: Thu, Sep 28, 2017 5:00 am
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Trying again: introduction and questions

Hello, everyone.I tried this about a week ago, but other than two unrelated posts(Orange Fool and Chinese vinegars), I have heard nothing but echoingsilence from this list. Perhaps my message was just too long, andpeople's eyes glazed over long before they got to the end?So, short version: I'm Julia Szent-Györgyi, known in the SCA asKolosvari Arpadne Julia. Although I was born in California, my firstlanguage is Hungarian. Blame Glenn Gorsuch for getting me all nicelyentangled in early Hungarian cookbooks and their translations. :-)I did a quick-and-dirty translation of a short cookbook bySzentbenedeki Mihály (Michael of St. Benedict), dated to 1601, andDaniel Myers was kind enough to put it right up on Medieval Cookery(http://medievalcookery.com/etexts.html?Hungary). Then I found anothershort cookbook (item 25: http://digitalia.lib.pte.hu/?p=1455#toc);like the much longer Transylvanian court cookbook that Glenn & co gottranslated, the manuscript is missing its title page, but the 19thcentury editor (Radvánszky) dated it to the last decades of the 16thcentury, based on orthography and contextual clues.I've now completed my first pass through this second short cookbook,going quite a bit more slowly than for the first one, and writing lotsof footnotes. There have been many little decisions along the way, butthe one that's currently on my mind is punctuation.Judging by the first recipe, which he gives in a close transcriptionas well as a modernized one, Radvánszky mostly stuck with thepunctuation (or often, lack thereof) of the manuscript. Do Imore-or-less stick with this style, and the concomitant occasionalutter confusion, or do I try to clarify things a bit with periods andcommas? The first approach has the drawback of confusion, the secondhas the drawback that it adds a layer of interpretation. Which is thelesser of two evils?Here's that first recipe, in the four versions:Close transcription:Az Pauat megh keól sẅtni, leuet igÿ keól czinalni, Tengóri szóló esMontola keól, ezt ez ketteót iol eószsze keól teórni es hogi meghteórik uesse borban, ues fa heat, borsot, meezet egi kis szeókfẅuet ishozza, hogÿ osztán feóni teszeód ezeók mind benne feoienek kiketfeólliẅl megh irtam, az szeókfẅ keues legión, hogÿ megh feónek osztanszẅrd az sẅlt paua ala az montolat meg nem keól healni, hanem mindheastul teóriek.Modernized transcription:A pávát meg kell sütni, levét igy kell csinálni: tengeri szőlő ésmandula köll, ezt az kettőt jól össze kell törni, és hogy megtörikvesse borban, vess fahéjat, borsot, mézet egy kis szőkfüvet is hozzá,hogy oztán főni tesződ, ezek mind benne föjjenek, kiket fölül megirtamaz szökfü kevés legyen, hogy megfőnek oztán szürd az sült páva alá, azmandulát meg nem kell héjalni, hanem mind héjastúl törjék.Translation:The peacock should be roasted, its sauce should be made thus: you needcurrants and almonds, mash these two things up well, and after theyare mashed put them in wine, add cinnamon, pepper, honey and a littlecloves as well, and when you put it on to cook, these things that Ilisted above should all cook in it the cloves should be scant, afterthey have cooked strain it under the roasted peacock, the almonds donot need to be peeled, but should be mashed peels and all.Punctuation corrected:The peacock should be roasted. Its sauce should be made thus: you needcurrants and almonds; mash these two things up well, and after theyare mashed, put them in wine. Add cinnamon, pepper, honey, and alittle cloves as well, and when you put it on to cook, these thingsthat I listed above should all cook in it. The cloves should be scant.After they have cooked, strain it under the roasted peacock. Thealmonds do not need to be peeled, but should be mashed peels and all.---Which version would you prefer in a cookbook translation?Julia/\ /\>*.*<_______________________________________________Sca-cooks mailing listSca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.orghttp://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org