SR - Re: Lionsmouth? (fwd)

[Timothy A. McDaniel]

I asked Baron Talan Gwynek, who has much more sources and wisdom than
I do, about a few suggestions.  I forward it for those who wish to
read; it's taken me a few re-readings to follow the info.  My original
note is "> "; my current comments are in [...].

    ---------- Forwarded message ----------
    Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 00:41:55 +0000
    From: Brian M. Scott <scott at math.csuohio.edu>
    To: "Timothy A. McDaniel" <tmcd at crl.com>
    Subject: Re: Lionsmouth? (fwd)

> When it comes to rivers I'm all at sea; my vague impression is that
> river names tend to be older than other geographical names and they
> tend to be of mysterious origin and derivation.

This is correct.  One can go a bit further and say that in those cases
in which we're able to determine the etymology [derivation] of an old
hydronym ["water name"] with any confidence, it tends to be something
like 'water' or descriptive in a straightforward way ('dark', 'noisy',
etc.).  <Lionsmouth>, if possible at all, would probably involve
postulating some folk etymologizing of the first element at some
point, which makes it a poor candidate.  [That is, "it sounds like
'lion', it must have been derived from 'lion'."]

There *is* a <Linmouth> (<Lynemuwe> 1242, <Lynemuth> 1268) on the
river Lyne; this particular R. Lyne was <Lina> c.1050, 1137 and has a
British river-name that may be derived from the root <*lei-> 'to flow'
in Welsh <lliant> 'stream'.

[A like-seeming name:] <Leominster> (<Leomynster> 10th c., c.1000,
1046, <Leominstre> DB) contains OE <Leon>, the old name of a district
on the Arrow and Lugg; it's found also in <Lyonshall> (<Lenehalle> DB,
<Lenhal> 1227; the second element is <halh> 'valley').  It also
belongs to the root mentioned above.  [It?  Root?]

> Any advice?

<Linemuth> and the like is no problem, and it wouldn't surprise me if 
modern forms like <Lynmouth>, etc. were actually late-period, though 
I haven't done any real checking.

They can get the <Lyon-> element [from the Leon district], but
probably not with <mouth> [which is specifically for the mouth of a
river].

> Leontofora: I have NO idea if "leon" [though I should have trusted
> Timo] is even Greek, much less whether "tofora" might mean "land of"
> or whether the construction is reasonable for Greek.

The compound is actually <leonto-fora> in terms of the division, 
though <leontophora> would be a better transliteration.  It's the 
nominative singular feminine of <leontophoros> 'lion-bearing'.  (I 
haven't checked, but <semaphore> is probably an Englished version of 
a similar compound meaning 'sign-bearing'.)  I have no idea whether 
the Greeks used adjectives in this way to form place-names meaning 
'land characterized by this property'.  I'd certainly insist on 
getting a couple of actual examples of the construction, preferably 
ones based on the local fauna (or, next best, flora).

Talan
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