SR - Principality raison

[CAB]

                      RE>SR - Principality raison d'etre           6/25/98

Dieterich, I have to disagree with you on some of your points below.

>In one of Lord Gillis posts, he stated many reasons he feels are >being put
about as incentives in the following list, some of 
> which actually have been brought up and others that have not:

>>1).  Ease the finnancial burrden on the Crown. -- Yes it is >>expensive to
be the King.  Many aspects of the hobby are very >>expensive.  But how many
fought in the last Crown?  Must not be >>that bad or they wouldn't be there.
And some have done it more >>than once.  God bless 'em, every one.

>This is one of the reasons listed by many proponents.  The more >affordable
it is to be king, the larger the lists will be.  As an >aside, I like
competitive lists; the more people on the field the >day you win a tourney
(honorably) the greater the honor.

I have to disagree with you on this one for a number of reasons:
1) Does everyone realize that the only way that the P will lessen the burden
on the crown is if they NEVER come to our events???  I for one am very against
this idea.  I like to go to events  where the crown is going.
1a) This might also lower the chances for awards.  There are some awards like
the Sable Falcon which can only be given by the Crown.  This is not something
that you are recommended for.  If you want a P so that you can just play
together, how will the crown see the people in the P and give out awards like
this?

2) Dieterich do you really think that the money is going to make a difference
in the number of people who enter crown tourney?  Let me go along with your
"lesson the burden of the crown" theory for a minute.  If the crown never
attends the events in this region, and and on the days that they might have
attended an event in this region, they decide to stay home.  That would mean
that they would roughly save 1/5 the cost.  Right?  Okay, I had one count tell
me that it cost him about $7000 when he was king. So if he didn't have to go
to the events in the Southern Region it would have cost him $7000 x 80% =
$5600. Do you think the difference between $7000 and $5600 is it really going
to change whether someone enters crown tournement?  I just really don't see
this making a difference.  I think that the people who enter crown tourney do
so because they want to serve their kingdom.  Being Crown is a big "sacrafice"
- it cost a lot of money, a lot of time, and a lot of work.  I think everyone
who enters crown tourney knows this and is willing to take on that
responsibility.  (They swear an oath that to this effect, just to enter crown
tourney.)  If someone is not willing to make the sacrefices necessary to
fulfill the duties fo the crown, then they shouldn't enter the tourney. 

(Just an aside - if you read Kingdom Law Section 5 - e. In addition, any
person entering the Crown Lists and his/her prospective consort must assure
the following capabilities to the Crown: i Sufficient income to support the
office of the Crown;")

>> 3).  Ease the calendar.---Same number of groups, plus now there >>will be 4
more blocked events at least for the principality.  In >>addition there will
be principality events also.  Yes we've had >>some regional events already,
but not many.  I'm sure there >>would be more principality ones.

>This has been addressed as a 'con' issue at both discussions as >well as here
on the list.  My personal rebut would be that you >can step up on Sunday.
Also, there is nothing that says your list >must happen every six months.  I
think every nine would be fine.  >Even if you wanted stepping up to be on a
different weekend from >the actual list, you could always piggyback it with
another event >(perhaps a shire event, thus boosting their attendance).

I tend to disagree with you on this one as well.  
1) Prince to reign for 9 months? That seems like a long time to me.  It seems
like a long time to ask a Prince to commit to.  Not to mention if for some
slight possibility, someone won the Coronet, and then, that person did a long
time.  9 months is a long time to wait to get someone else. 
Also, 9 months is just not an easy number to remember.  I know that Crown
tournement happens every March and every October give a couple of weeks either
way.  But every nine months would be hard to figure out. Okay this year it is
in April - that means next year it will both in January and in November.  This
may seem like a minor thing, but we are talking about a protected weekend on
the kingdom calender to hold the Coronet Tourney. Every group trying to plan
when to hold there next event, will have to try and keep up with this moving
protected weekend.

2) You could try to piggy-back the events, but I really just don't see this
happening.  Most of the local events that I have been to have been at sights
really designed for tournament events.  Stepping ups really are more of
"Court" events and need different accomodations.  I think it would be a strain
on shires to try and accommodate both.  Not to mention the problem of trying
to coordinate both the normal event activities (tourney, court, feast, other
competitions) and Coronation activities.  In theory, Dieterich this sounds
like a good idea.  I am just not sure that it would work this way in reality. 
I think that there is a reason that we have Stepping ups on separate weekends
from other events.  One more note on this way, I thought you wanted more
"pomp" if you are just going to "squeeze" in things like the stepping up
either with the Coronet list or with another event, aren't you talking about
decreasing the "Pomp" involved?

>> 4)  Reduce Crown having to travel.--On the weekends that there >>are
multiple events, they can't make them all any way.  I don't >>believe any of
the Crowns have travelled every weekend and I do >>not expect them too.  There
are plenty of Nobles that can and do >>help hold court for the Crown.

>I can think of several crowns who have travelled *darned near* >every
weekend.  It's absolutely exhausting for them.  I've seen >three reigns in as
many years where the King went one direction >and the Queen another...
sometimes by *plane*.  As for other >nobles holding court, I put this to you:
who is better prepared >to hold court- a Prince and Princess, their entourage,
herald, >and vallet with all the attendant thrones, coronets, pillows,
>heraldry, etc. or a court barron on short notice?  Where lies the >lions
share of the pomp?

1) Okay lets look at Capora for a minute.  Section VI. A. I c (2) "The royal
pair must attend their Coronation or Investiture. They must preside after it,
at the next Royal Lists, at the Coronation or Investiture of their successors,
and at such other events as may be dictated by the laws and customs of their
realm for the duration of their reign. "

1 b) Now, from this I read that the Crown must go to "Coronation" and then to
the next "Crown" Tourney.  It could be argued that in this kindom, it is also
customary for the Crown to attend "Queens Champion" and during the Spring
reign to attend "Gulf War".  To me this means that I count up 4 events that
the Crown must attend.  So if it is such a bother for them to attend something
"darned near every weekend" - why do they do it???  I think they do it because
the people who win crown are people who LOVE the SCA.  They are crown because
they like going to events and they WANT to feel that is their responsibility
to attend all those events.  
I honestly don't think that if we call ourselves a P that this is going to
make any difference to the crown.  The believe that most crowns are still
going to feel that it is their responsibilty to attend a LOT of events.

2) Now, as for who is better at holding court???  I am not sure that I agree
with you at all.  I know a number of Counts, Barons, etc that have been asked
to hold court at various events, and I think that the Barons, etc are pleased
to be asked to hold court.  I think that in general, that they are asked well
in advance of the event to hold court. - Also I just can't agree with you on
this whole idea that a Prince is better prepared to hold court.  A Baron, or a
Count has had that title usually for years and years.  They have held LOTS of
courts, they very often know the local people involved, and they can often
make awards and such more special by personally speaking about the recipient,
while a prince may not know.

>> 5).  More pomp and etc..--We don't have all that many banner >>and such
flying around now.  Why would there be more then if >>folks aren't doing it
now?

>This has been discussed here on the list, but not at the >meetings.  As for
pomp, see my reply to your #4 above.  Hanging >banners does not necessarily
constitute pomp... it does, however, >help.

I have to agree with what Lord Gilli on this one.  The level of "pomp" is not
going to change just by changing/adding titles to people either people are
going to make "pomp" or they aren't going to.  You can't change the way that
people are just by changing the name of the group to a P.

>> 6).  Workers will come out of the wood work.--The Crown almost >>evey reign
beggs for insignia and scrolls.  There's not enough >>of us now doing them.
And soon there could be more.

>This has not been addressed by anyone.  The answer lies in >planning.  See
Mistress Aquillanes post on end-user feedback and >group friendly regalia.

You are absolutely correct.  The answer lies in more volunteers and better
planning.  I hate to say it, but making this region into a P is not going to
change the level of volunteers or the amount of planning.  It may change it
for a couple of months when every one is all excited about a new P.  But down
the line 6 months, or a year, or 5 years, the newness wears off and people
find other things that they would like to be doing.  When that happens, the
same people who are willing to do the work today will still be the only people
willing to do the work then.

>> 7).  More chances to hold office.--If only one region makes up >>the
principality then where are the extra chances to hold >>office.  And if two
regions go together, than the offices drop >>by half.

>This reason has not been discussed at all and I'm not sure I >understand it.
What *has* been brought up was that there is the >distinct possibility that
the offices will gain more glamour, >more limelight, and more responsibility.
The reeve will actually >have an account.  The chronicler will actually
publish a letter.  >Since it is a common complaint that regional offices are
hard to >fill, it is speculated that this will help.

Dieterich, what you are describing, "have an account", "publish a letter",
etc. This doesn't soundlike more "glamour, more limelight" - this sounds like
more WORK.  If "it is a common complaint that regional offices are hard to
fill" why do you think they will be easier to fill if we become a P and there
is more WORK involved?

One of my concerns is this.  Currently, nothing really happens if a regional
office stands open a few months. (I think we currently have some offices open
and I know that a couple of years ago the A&S office in this region stood open
for a number of months.)   However, by Capora, a Prinicipality must keep "b. A
full staff of prospective Great Officers#005#." "The Great Officers of a
kingdom include the Seneschal, the Principal Herald, the Earl Marshal, the
Minister of Arts, the Minister of Sciences, the Chancellor of the Exchequer
(Treasurer), the Chronicler, and the Chirurgeon."  If the P doesn't keep this
the BOD can put the group on suspension or disolve the P.

Crystal Berringer
Rockdale TX


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