[Steppes] An informal poll and February Populace

[Judie Willey]

VERY WELL SAID   HUZZAH :)
Lady Hadassah


On 2/15/07, Jay Rudin <rudin at ev1.net> wrote:
>
> Earl Gunthar replied to me:
>
>
> > >Pros:
> >>1. All of Warlord fits there.
> >>2. A large list field,
> >>3. Parking for over 600,
> >>4. Camping for over 400,
> >>5. An air-conditioned hall big enough for court,
> >>6. Nearby hotel rooms for over 200, that are normally empty on a holiday
> >>weekend.
> >>7. A safe archery range,
> >>8. A big enough place for equestrian events (and the right to have
> horses
> >>onsite),
> >>9. the right to drink alcohol, and
> >>10. enough showers for 400.
> >>
> >>These are all absolute requirements.  If any one of them is missing, the
> >>site is unacceptable for Warlord.
>
> > Okay. I know I will get horribly flamed for this but I really have to
> ask.
> > Why are these items non-negotiable?
>
> Your Excellency, you really don't need to be melodramatic.  You're not
> going
> to get flamed, least of all by me.  You asked questions; I will give my
> answers.
>
> I'm not deciding what the event needs to be; I'm reporting what it
> actually
> is.  These are the absolute requirements for holding the actual event we
> actually hold.  We can eliminate any piece of what people come for, and
> thus
> eliminate the need for a place for it.  If we want Warlord to be an
> afternoon-long chess tournament, we can hold it in somebody's living room.
>
> But the requirements listed above are the minimum requirements for
> holding,
> not what I think Steppes Warlord shold be, but what the event is fact
> actually is.  Eliminating any one of them is not merely makingt it less
> uncomfortable, but changing the actual event.
>
> > Why are hotel rooms so necessary? Camping may be a bit uncomfortable
> > but it's kind of part of what we do.
>
> It's *not* a part of what all of us do.  It's a part of what some of us
> do.
>
> In any event, moving to a site that without many rooms not usually used on
> Memorial Day weekend would change the event into something it isn't, and
> lose us a lot of participants.  Lots of people currently staying for the
> weekend would either not come at all, or daytrip for their focus alone.
>
> > We held a lot of courts in non-air conditioned surroundings. It's hot.
> > We deal with it.
>
> Yeah, I know -- this was my view until Serena and I autocratted it last
> year.  We were focused on financial responsibiltiy, and chose not to pay
> for
> the hall on Sunday, to save $450.  Then a group of anonymous Steppes
> people
> raised the $450 and paid for the Sunday hall themselves.  This convinced
> me
> that, although it wasn't that important to me, the hall was important
> enough
> to enough people, as measured in hundreds of dollars, to be considered a
> necessary part of the event.
>
> > Why are archery or equestrian so important that a site is to be negated
> > if they can't be accomodated? Less than 5% of the attendees combined
> > pay much attention to these. I'm not saying they aren't part of the
> > SCA or important in their own right. But we lose a great site because
> > 5% of people can't play their game for one event that isn't focused
> > on them?
>
> "For one event"?  There's no archery or equestrian at Steppes Artisan or
> Twelfth Night, either.  If Steppes is to have them at all, we have to have
> them at our outdoor event.
>
> Are you volunteering to be the event steward for a new Steppes archery /
> equestrian event, or suggesting that the Steppes can abandon some of its
> tradition and championship events and people?
>
> > Warlord is about the armored championship primarily. The rapier
> > second. The courts. The bardic. Ect...
>
> The word "Warlord" is an abbreviation.  Unfortunately, it's an
> abbreviation
> for two diffeent things.
>
> "Steppes Warlord Tournament" is the biggest, oldest, most prestigious
> heavy
> weapons tournament in Ansteorra, pre-dating the kingdom, the principality,
> even the region of Ansteorra.
>
> "Steppes Warlord event" is the biggest local event in the kingdom, and a
> center of Ansteorran culture.  One of the few places that southern and
> northen and western Ansteorrans meet is this event.
>
> These are both important to the Steppes; these are both important to the
> kingdom.
>
> > If there is space for the archery or equestrian and such I love having
> > them there. I also like motels and air conditioning. But why are these
> > required? We did quite well without them for many years.
>
> Yes, we did without archers, riders, even fencers for quite a while.  One
> kingdom does without fencers even today.  But we're here now, and we are
> going to take part.
>
> Is it essential that they take place at the Warlord event?  Probably not.
> But we get two events per year.  Twelfth Night, Steppes Artisan, and
> Warlord.  Steppes is currently getting away with three because the bards
> are
> hosting Eisteddfod at Twelfth Night.  If it ever moves away, we lose an
> event.  And of these three, only one is outdoors.
>
> So if the Steppes is to have fencing, archery, or equestrian activities
> *at
> all*, we will have them at the Warlord event.  None of these competitions
> will ever have the prestige or clout of the Steppes Warlord tournament,
> but
> they will exist, so this is the only place for them.
>
> > Some people will say it is for health reasons for some of our members.
> > Fine. But if it is that important I'm sure hotels are within a half hour
> > of anywhere near the metroplex.
>
> The issue is not whether there are hotels there, but whether there are
> enough available hotel *rooms* on a holiday weekend.  Near the metroplex,
> I'm sure there's plenty.  Canton has plenty of open rooms because of First
> Monday.  But any other site as far from the metroplex as Canton would
> probably not have enough extra capacity for us.
>
> > We can't disregard the vast majority of populace because a small
> > percentage may feel left out. We have become so PC in all of our
> > dealings that one voice has more power than one hundred. We can
> > try to accomodate everyone and I'm really all for that. But to totally
> > disregard something at the risk of offending someone then we just
> > hogtie ourselves.
>
> Go look at the archery range sometime.  The numbers may surprise
> you.  There
> are significantly more people than there were entered in my first Steppes
> Warlord.
>
> But the point is this.  As I understand it, we are debating finding a site
> to hold our Warlord event.  Changing or reducing the event, or dumping
> Steppes traditions, was beyond the scope of the project.
>
> > And this isn't being said because I'm some bigoted stickjock.
> > I'm looking at attendance and what people are doing as well
> > as what the event is about. If we find a great site for 12th Night
> > but there is no room for armored combat, I'm all for it. 12th Night
> > isn't about fighting. The main concern for 12th Night is kitchen
> > facilities and seating.
>
> The analogy is not analogous.  A Twelfth Night site should hold everything
> we are doing at Twelfth Night, which does not include armored combat.  A
> Warlord site should include what we do at Warlord -- and that *does*
> include
> archery and horses.
>
> > I don't hate archery or equestrian or air conditioning or nice halls.
> > I LOVE equestrian. But that isn't the focus of the event.
>
> A four-day event doesn't have a single focus.  I agree completely that the
> Steppes Warlord tournament is the high point of the event.  That does not
> imply that other things aren't important.  Each of 638 people last year
> had
> a focus, and the majority of them don't fight with rattan.
>
> > Armored
> > combat, rapier, bardic, dancing, courts, etc...can all be utilized in
> > the same space. Equestrian and archery demand a large area that
> > may not be available. So we lose a good site because of this?
>
> Well, as mundane as I think Canton is, and as nice as it would be to have
> shade for the camping, one of the aspects of a good site is that we can
> hold
> our event on it.
>
> Or we open a totally different thread on how much smaller we want our
> event
> to be.
>
> > Okay. I'll put on my flame proof suit and hide under a rock now.
>
> Please put away both the "flame proof suit" and the martyr complex.  You
> didn't flame anybody, and we're not flaming you.  You asked questions; I'm
> answering them.  You don't have to pretend that I attack people who
> disagree
> with me.
>
> Robin of Gilwell / Jay Rudin
>
> _______________________________________________
> Steppes mailing list
> Steppes at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/steppes-ansteorra.org
>



-- 
Rebbe Hadassah Sarai bas Yossi
MoC Barony of Steppes