[Steppes] An informal poll and February Populace

[Michael Gunter]

>Earl Gunthar replied to me:

Number one, I'm just Gunthar. A member of the
Steppes and feel rank should not be a factor
in this discussion.

>But the requirements listed above are the minimum requirements for holding,
>not what I think Steppes Warlord shold be, but what the event is fact
>actually is.  Eliminating any one of them is not merely makingt it less
>uncomfortable, but changing the actual event.

And, I guess my point, and the feelings of others is that perhaps
Warlord is becomming something people don't want it to be.
It's become a 5-ring circus because we have to include everybody
who wants to do something.

>In any event, moving to a site that without many rooms not usually used on
>Memorial Day weekend would change the event into something it isn't, and
>lose us a lot of participants.  Lots of people currently staying for the
>weekend would either not come at all, or daytrip for their focus alone.

But that is the case that is happening now with Canton anyway.
How many people are on site by Sunday afternoon? Most of the
people left are there to pursue their individual interests that may
not be until Sunday. Even the rapier championship, which is an
important part of the event, is sparsely attended and once that is
over and the awards given that part of the attendance drops
significantly as well.

>Yeah, I know -- this was my view until Serena and I autocratted it last
>year.  We were focused on financial responsibiltiy, and chose not to pay 
>for
>the hall on Sunday, to save $450.  Then a group of anonymous Steppes people
>raised the $450 and paid for the Sunday hall themselves.  This convinced me
>that, although it wasn't that important to me, the hall was important 
>enough
>to enough people, as measured in hundreds of dollars, to be considered a
>necessary part of the event.

I like the air conditioning as well. I like a nice big hall to hold court 
in.
I like motel rooms. I'm not against them.
If we can find a site with this I agree it is nice.
But, although on paper Canton Trade Days fits the bill, the reality is that
a lot of people hate the site. I think people would be more interested
in showing up at a new site with fewer benefits if it looked and felt right.

>"For one event"?  There's no archery or equestrian at Steppes Artisan or
>Twelfth Night, either.  If Steppes is to have them at all, we have to have
>them at our outdoor event.

And why do we need the equestrian? Seriously, how many people
participate or even really watch it? I love to watch equestrian, I'd
like to do it, but
if we have to cancel a nice site because maybe 10 people can't have
the space for the rather demanding requirements then is this
really important? Again, if you can show me numbers on the participation
of equestrian to show it provides a major impact on the event then I
feel we should make special accomodations for it.

>Are you volunteering to be the event steward for a new Steppes archery /
>equestrian event, or suggesting that the Steppes can abandon some of its
>tradition and championship events and people?

If a decent site could be found. At a cooler time of year, shoot, you could
make the championships along with a fighting college as well. Make it
a fully martial weekend. I see no problem with that and there would
probably be more attendance at such as well.

>These are both important to the Steppes; these are both important to the
>kingdom.

I agree Steppes Warlord is important to the Kingdom and always has
been. I agree that sites need to be looked at carefully. I also don't like
Hawkins for a variety of reasons and many of them being it doesn't
provide the things you say are necessary. As well as it being too far
away.

But the fact is that numbers are declining and enthusiasm for Steppes
Warlord is also waning. Some of it is because of Canton. And, as someone
else pointed out we can try to find a site that maybe doesn't have all
the requirements and if we don't like it we can go back or find
something new. Also, us being gone one year may wake up the
owners of the Trade Days site and not take us for granted.

>But we're here now, and we are going to take part.

So we must accomodate anyone who wants to do anything at
the event, even if it could cost us a nice site? I'm all for inclusion
but to force inclusion of everyone at one event at the cost
of alienating sites or a larger proportion of people, must we do
it?

>Is it essential that they take place at the Warlord event?  Probably not.
>But we get two events per year.  Twelfth Night, Steppes Artisan, and
>Warlord.  Steppes is currently getting away with three because the bards 
>are
>hosting Eisteddfod at Twelfth Night.  If it ever moves away, we lose an
>event.  And of these three, only one is outdoors.

What is to prevent the Steppes from hosting other events? We have
two we are allowed on the calender. But I'm hoping to host a Cooking
Symposium sometime this year. Does this mean I can't?
If the event is off the calendar does the championship not count?
We can't move the armored combat part, nor the rapier, nor the
courts. That's cool because they all can fill the same space. The
bardic makes its own space. Camping is a definate part of Warlord.

But archery and equestrian must have their own rather large space.
Actually, I'm sure that a decent archery range won't take up too much
space and does not have to worry about being excluded.

Air conditioning is nice and I think there should at least be some
smallish hall at the very least. And most decent camping areas
now have a main hall. Look at Camp Cimmeron. If we could
find a place like that but with more flat space it would be wonderful.

>So if the Steppes is to have fencing, archery, or equestrian activities *at
>all*, we will have them at the Warlord event.  None of these competitions
>will ever have the prestige or clout of the Steppes Warlord tournament, but
>they will exist, so this is the only place for them.

And I feel they don't have to be at Warlord to be recognized.

>The issue is not whether there are hotels there, but whether there are
>enough available hotel *rooms* on a holiday weekend.  Near the metroplex,
>I'm sure there's plenty.  Canton has plenty of open rooms because of First
>Monday.  But any other site as far from the metroplex as Canton would
>probably not have enough extra capacity for us.

This is a good point. But I think it also depends on where the site
is located and what tourism flow is there. It is definately another
area where we'd need to check with the motels in the area and
see their rates and numbers over the weekend. Even if we have
to pre-book rooms at package rates.

>Go look at the archery range sometime.  The numbers may surprise you.  
>There
>are significantly more people than there were entered in my first Steppes
>Warlord.

Again, let's see numbers on this. Also, as I stated earlier, I don't think
archery would really be excluded on any decent site.

>But the point is this.  As I understand it, we are debating finding a site
>to hold our Warlord event.  Changing or reducing the event, or dumping
>Steppes traditions, was beyond the scope of the project.

Many people do feel that Warlord should be changed. There is too
much going on, the site is unappealing, the hall is horrible for Court,
people are leaving Saturday night or early on Sunday, and maybe
some kind of revamp needs to be considered.

>A four-day event doesn't have a single focus.  I agree completely that the
>Steppes Warlord tournament is the high point of the event.  That does not
>imply that other things aren't important.  Each of 638 people last year had
>a focus, and the majority of them don't fight with rattan.

But how many of that 638 were there Sunday afternoon? I was, and
the site looked pretty empty. I agree that most people there don't
fight armored. But I think we need to see what they are doing there.
And with dozens of competitions between armored combat, rapier,
archery, equestrian, bardic, children's, sewing, knife/axe/spear, etc...
the already long Courts become more long as eveyone needs
recognition. The Crowns and Landeds are run ragged and things are,
frankly, boring a lot of the time. Maybe we need to see what people
want out of Warlord.

>Well, as mundane as I think Canton is, and as nice as it would be to have
>shade for the camping, one of the aspects of a good site is that we can 
>hold
>our event on it.

I think we all agree on this. The objective now is figuring out just what
parameters to use.

>Please put away both the "flame proof suit" and the martyr complex.  You
>didn't flame anybody, and we're not flaming you.  You asked questions; I'm
>answering them.  You don't have to pretend that I attack people who 
>disagree
>with me.

The "flame-proofing" was an acknowledgement that often a dissenting
voice in a discussion will generate some rather nasty viterol directed at 
them.
It was a comment stating I knew what I was saying could be unpopular
and I expected some folk to take exception to my words. It was not
my intention to act the martyr nor to declare "poor little me".

However, the tone of your statement was a bit more patronizing that I
feel appropriate for polite discourse.

>Robin of Gilwell / Jay Rudin

Gunthar

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