ANST - Re: we NEED a new site!

[James Crouchet]

Here are some of my thoughts. Some are just information, some are 
negative, some are positive, some suggestions:


On 28 Apr 98, Reba Hubbard wrote:

>> What amounts are needed to purchase a site capable of holding
>> Kingdom-sized events (with adequate parking).
> 
> Here I can help.  I too have spent many years researching these
> topics. Suggested is a minimum of 25 acres, preferably 100.  Reality
> says we should begin by using the sites we do use as a guide.  I do
> not know about Wewa, but our more cramped sites I have been told
> when I asked are from about 10 to 25 acres in size.  See commentary
> below for more on cost...

I can add the information that in central Texas the best price you
can expect to find for a 100 acre plot is about $1500 per acre.

I sure someone out there can tell me how their friend's cousin Hank
got his land for just $5 per acre from some really old guy who wasn't
too bright. Don't bother, we are not likely to find that old guy.

That $1500 price per acre goes up rapidly if: 

- it is near water

- it is near a town

- it is on a major highway

- we buy a smaller plot

- there are any improvements (roads, sewer system, water wells, 
  electric)

- there is anything particularly nice about the land.

Any of these would bring the price up to the $2500 to $4000 range.
Several added together (e.g. if the land had a well, septic tank and
electric, on a creek near Marble Falls) it would be even more. Near a
city, much, MUCH more.

So, we are talking about no less than $150,000 for raw land in a
fairly out of the way place. For what we would really want we are
probably looking at a figure more like $350,000.

As reported earlier, Trimeris has a few thousand bucks after years
of fund raising. We would have to do a MUCH better job of fund
raising before we could even afford to maintain -- let alone buy --
such a piece of land.

A surcharge on each site fee is the only thing I have heard that 
would come close to raising that kind of money, and it would still 
take years. Mean time, we would be taxed (I think) on any cash we 
retained as our tax reports came due each year. 

What would really chap me though is that SCA inc. would own our
land. They could SELL it at any time without our consent. They could
kick us out of our own site. They could decide the site rules. WE
would have to ask THEM for permission to build on it and they could
tear down what we build if they wish. If we ever seceded from the
SCA our land would NOT go with us. I am not interested in giving the
SCA inc. a quarter of a million dollar asset that I put my blood 
sweat and tears into.

Ok, so we set up a separate NFP organization. Ok, HOW do you raise 
the money? If you charge fee at each *SCA* event, that money will 
legally belong to the SCA. They are not going to simply let us walk 
away with a quarter of a million dollars of corporate money. 
Donations? Raffles? Auctions? Trimeris has raised maybe $5k over the 
years with these tactics. Only a few hundred thousand dollars to 
go...

Getting back to costs, let's not forget that we would NOT be 
satisfied with the land as we bought it. It would require 
improvements that would probably cost us almost as much as the land. 

The good news is I checked on taxes and that would only be a few 
hundred dollars a year, assuming we did what was necessary to 
maintain an agricultural exemption.

As for renting out the site, that involves a whole host of costs, 
legal and tax considerations. What's more, many of the things we 
would have to do to make the site rent-able are in opposition to, 
unnecessary for or at least delay-able for using the site for SCA 
purposes. If we plan to rent it out we will also have to go with a 
more expensive piece of land because remote locations do not rent 
well.

Understand, renting it not free. It is not all gravy. There are real 
costs involved. If we spend the money to make it rent-able and then 
only rent it out a couple times a year, we LOSE money. Someone with 
experience OWNING camps-for-rent would have to run the figures to 
tell us how much our nut would be. It might be cheaper to just keep 
it for our use.

Someone pointed out that location would be a big issue. I suggest 
that the first site should be in the Central region as it is, well, 
central. But as a kingdom we would have to agree to continue to work 
toward acquiring sites until every region had one.

Alternately, each region could collect the money for THEIR regional 
site until they had enough to buy the site they want. That would, of
course, mean a MUCH longer time before the first site was acquired, 
but also control would be closer to home.

Some questions:

How many people attend our events annually?

How big are our big events (# of people)?

How big is the Steppes Warlord site? Gulf War?

Does anyone know exactly what the deal is with an NFP organization 
having a lot of cash on hand at tax time?

 - Dore
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