ANST - Second-Guessing

[Pug Bainter]

Gunnora Hallakarva (gunnora at bga.com) said something that sounded like:
> > Is Pug on the verge of withdrawing his proposal
> > regarding Ansteorran technology?  I'd be sorry,
> > but not surprised, if he felt the slings and
> > arrows to be not worth the benefit.
> I don't know what Pug may do here,

I do. I'm gonna continue forward to make sure that we make the best
decision with the resources made available to us. I *hope* that is for a
new server, if not we will go with used hardware and do the best we can.

> but if you propose to spend this much money -- and we're NOT talking
> about $1000 or $2000 dollars, we are talking about on-going moneys over
> time as has been cogently explained here already -- you have to expect
> that some people will panic, some people will disagree, and many will
> attempt to second-guess.

To be blunt, I was expecting much worse than I've gotten either from the
Red Tape event or this forum. While some if it came in fast and furious
at the beginning, there were no issues I didn't expect. What I didn't
expect was having to post the full proposal due to the volume of people
concerned as opposed to the issues.

Now I know better.

> Pug himself has not been shy about questioning
> aspects of SCA functioning in the past, nor should he have been.

Nor shall I be again.

> Jeepers, there may be things that have not been considered that these
> discussions may prompt thought on.  Pug might get an idea he would
> not have otherwise had, or he may see something that he overlooked.
> I am a web professional, and I guarantee that when I submit this type
> of proposal at work my peers try to pick it apart and punch holes in it.
> If they are successful, it means I wasn't well enough prepared.  Anyone in
> the real world who submits capital purchase proposals expects to have
> to work and rework such a proposal.

> That's not the issue here.  But if the Crown does something
> disasterously stupid, it is the responsibility and obligation of the
> Peers to try and talk them out of it.

I'm sorry. I must disagree here. It is the responsibility and obligation
of all Ansteorrans who give a damn. There are individuals who's opinions
will be weighted differently because of their experience (mundane or
SCA) and previous track record.

I have the right to say it, that does not mean that I have the right to
be expect my statements to be acted upon.

> If the proposal has merit, each of the questions, objections,
> etc, can be responded to so as to logically and reasonably overcome
> those objections and to soothe the fears.

As I hope they have.

> Sometimes these are not popular ideas, and I have to expect to back up
> my ideas with facts, explain where explanations are needed, and to win
> over those who disagree.  Or else my idea will not be adopted.  I *expect*
> to have to justify my proposals.

Not only did I expect to justify my proposal, I waited until the
appropriate time for the proposal. Just as you say, some ideas are not
popular. If I had proposed this same proposal 2 years ago, I would have
been an idiot to expect it to succeed. On the other hand, from the
responses I've seen to the usefulness of the lists and webpages, as well
as issues that officers have had with regards to consistance of office
and sites, I knew it was a good time to finally propose it.

> Because it is rife with pitfalls and giant piles of menure to fall into.
> About three dozen reasonable, valid concerns have been raised about
> owning a server vs. outsourcing.  I've got the same reservations -- my
> take is that owning the server is OK *so long as we allot a budget into
> the future to handle growth*.

Depending on the growth, I will pay for some of it out of my own pocket
if the Kingdom is unwilling. This is the least I can do for putting my
own reputation on the line for the betterment of this Kingdom. I even
stated this regarding some of the issues in the proposal.

I honestly do not expect to see the need of a mission-critical
high-availability system. While this is a business server, a few hours
of outage a year may be inconvenient, but the benefit is not worth the
cost.

> I personally wouldn't try to establish nor
> set up the server myself because there are *way* too many problems with
> keeping it running - more power to Pug for being willing to take it on.

I thank you.

> How come *you* didn't propose it if it's such a wonderful idea?

*I* do not feel that is fair. I could easily see someone proposing the
idea of a server, and have heard mention of it in the past.

They would on the other hand be appropriately reamed if they had not
addressed all the issues I did, which included where to locate it,
backups, cost, communication, and all the other logistics details.

Good ideas have to be followed up with good planning.

> Galen, that's a crock.  It's a server that will be used by the
> Ansteorran people, bought with money that the Ansteorran people
> raised, maintained by Ansteorrans, with webpages created and updated
> by Ansteorrans, lists moderated and participated on by Ansteorrans.
> It is a public idea, a public proposal, and public commentary, critique,
> and suggestions are *entirely* appropriate -- with the proviso that they
> are reasonable, logical serious comments and suggestions, not emotional
> diatribes or ad hominem attacks. *

I must agree with this.

Now on the other hand, I'm not sure everyone wants to hear all of us
bantering back and forth on the issue in a public forum. This is what I
was hoping to avoid, but that is not the case.

> I hope Pug looks at these things and considers them - there are several
> ideas that I'd hope he's added to his proposal.

Of course. As well, I am still talking privately with some of the
individuals regarding different issues.

> It would be really nice to see a side-by-side cost
> analysis of outsourcing vs. ownership of a server, and I suspect that
> Pug has the basics of that already done or could put one together --
> and that's the type of information that is needed to make a good decision
> with.

I did the intial ground work for this before even writing the original
proposal. To outsource something of this nature in the manner that *I*
am willing to consider it successful, dependable and reliable, it would
cost more per year than the initial cost of the server. One month's
cost of this level of outsourcing would purchase resonable amounts of
additional memory or harddrives for the server.

There is a reason service like this is not cheap. It is difficult to
provide this quality of service. On the other hand, I am donating my
time and expertise to the Kingdom. My employer is willing to allow me to
donate the resources that we would not be able to purchase/lease for a
reasonable price otherwise.

> It is certainly good advice for those with opinions pro and con to
> write them up in a logical presentation and send them to the Kingdom
> Seneschal -- but CC: Pug too, it's not only polite, it gives Pug a chance
> to figure out how to respond to these concerns.

Thank you. I will address ever concern I can to the best of my
abilities.

> I don't doubt that he can create a "business justification"
> that takes all the different concerns into account - it's what I would
> do in his shoes.

That is part of my professional background. Of course when this is
proposed again at the next Red Tape event (just after ATYC) it will make
sure to further address the issues raised here and in private, as well
as having additional justifications.

Ciao,

-- 
Phelim "Pug" Gervase  | "I want to be called. COTTONTIPS. There is something 
Barony of Bryn Gwlad  |  graceful about that lady. A young woman bursting with 
House Flaming Dog     |  vigor. She blinked at the sudden light. She writes
pug at pug.net           |  beautiful poems. When ever shall we meet again?"
  Note: The views do not reflect the SCA nor the Kingdom of Ansteorra.
============================================================================
Go to http://lists.ansteorra.org/lists.html to perform mailing list tasks.