ANST - FWD: Re: ANST-Announce - Archery Safety?

Morgan Cain morgancain at
Wed Apr 18 07:28:27 PDT 2001

Since I have permission to foward our discussion, I am doing so.  My concern is that without knowing specifically what the Society Earl Marshall has proposed, everybody is just whistling in the dark.  The Board rarely (any more) just plonks changes down without taking input from those persons affected.

I have seen persons agitating to make combat archery safer, mostly by setting up a universal standard and eliminating those shafts that can break, and the style of arrows that seem implicated in most of the injuries from Gulf Wars.  I hardly see this as "kill[ing] combat archery."  As I told Gilli, His Grace Duke Sir Eringlen is from a kingdom that has a very strong history with combat archery and quite a number of combat archers in its army.  I hardly think he is going to ban something so familiar in his military system.

I've been in the SCA a long time.  Changes in fighting have happened in the past based upon safety concerns.  I remember when the eyeslot rules changed, and people fussed, but they adapted their helms or got new ones.  If people want to continue playing, they adapt to the new safety rules.  If you think the new rules are going to be unfair, why not wait to see what they have to say before you start firing off angry letters?  Simply saying "we've always done it that way and we are not about to change it" is not an effective argument.

(Not to mention, it is soooooo West Kingdomish.  <s>)

I have yet to see the Society Earl Marshall's actual proposal.  I have seen a lot of persons speculating on what might happen, and whining about the inconvenience of complying with rules that have not been imposed and may not even exist.  This is not an effective use of time or energy.  Once you know what the rules are going to be, give them consideration and see whether you can live with them.  You have to make arrows anyway, adapting old ones or making new ones to the new standards would not be so egregious.  Certainly arrows are cheaper than helms.

                              ---= Morgan

------Original Message------
From: "Bob Dewart" <gilli at>
To: Morgan Cain <morgancain at>
Sent: April 18, 2001 1:04:43 PM GMT
Subject: Re: ANST-Announce - Archery Safety?

Probably doesn't want to be known as the guy that killed combat archery.  He
hasn't told the archers what level of risk to correct to, just "fix it or I

If there's a fire in my kitchen I want to put it out there, not wait till
the whole house is enflames.

The SEM told the Earl Marshal and Archery Marshal at Golf War that the arrow
were going to change because he didn't want to upset the heavy fighters.

I have been dealing with this going on 2 years now.  There are cases of eye
injury to fighter that aren't archery related.  But those are just
dismissed.  Only the archery is being looked at.  This isn't about eye

The same thing happened last year.  The SEM was hot to do something about
the archery.  Folks spoke up and the thing went away for awhile.


Forward it to whoever you like.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Morgan Cain" <morgancain at>
To: "Bob Dewart" <gilli at>
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: ANST-Announce - Archery Safety?

> Actually, if the SEM were anti-CA, he would have just banned it right
> The fact that he plans to make a proposal (which you have not seen, I am
> assuming) and take feedback indicates that he is not as anti-CA as you
> think.  In fact, CA is very enthusiastically practiced in his Kingdom.
> I think that there is no agenda, as you seem to believe.  This is the
> procedure for things -- proposal to the Board, Board sends out for
> Board reviews comments.  You are just talking into air right now because
> don't even know what is the comment.  And I am surprised that you consider
> the number and type of injuries from Gulf Wars to be acceptable, as your
> opposition to any changes in the CA arrows seems to indicate.
> May I pass your message on to people who have received your earlier
> and are wondering from where you are coming?  It really sounds as if you
> don't even have a teapot yet and you are trying to stir up a tempest.
>                                         ---= Morgan
> ===============================================
> Sometimes, I have looked back at my behavior and learned
> not to make the same mistake twice.  Other times, I have
> merely learned to make it again with more style.
>                                              ---= Marilyn vos Savant
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Dewart <gilli at>
> To: Morgan Cain <morgancain at>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 1:08 AM
> Subject: Re: ANST-Announce - Archery Safety?
> > Greetings and Hi There,
> >
> > This situation has been brewing for a while, about two years.  Part of
> > statement was, we the archery communitty haven't been told how much to
> fix,
> > just fix it.  Discussions on this subject have, at times, been quite
> heated
> > on the various archery lists.
> >
> > We were told by the Society Marshal at Gulf War that he was going to
> change
> > our arrows, no ifs, and or buts about it.  The SEM appears to be
> > anti combat archery.
> >
> > But for that to happen, the issue has to go before the board.  I didn't
> want
> > our fate decided without our having a say in the matter.
> >
> > I think it's a good thing I did.  According to the board member, they
> expect
> > a proposal from the SEM at this weekends meeting.  We were'nt even
> > to have our recommendations to our Earl Marshal till the end of the
> > So it does appear the SEM has his own ajenda.
> >
> > Does that clear it up a bit?
> >
> > Gilli
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Morgan Cain" <morgancain at>
> > To: "Bob Dewart" <gilli at>; "Ansteorra-Announce"
> > <Ansteorra-Announce at>
> > Cc: <directors at>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 11:57 PM
> > Subject: Re: ANST-Announce - Archery Safety?
> >
> >
> > > > By now many of have received your TIs.  You know that the members of
> > > > the BOD want to hear our thoughts on matters that come before them.
> > >
> > > Right. But I cannot see where in the current issue of TI (My Spring
> 2001,
> > > No. 138, arrived today) is there anything addressing the topic of your
> > > missive.  Help?
> > >
> > > >  Soon a matter
> > > > will be before them that could affect how many of us play the game.
> > >
> > > And if the subject is not yet before the Board, and they have not yet
> > > requested feedback from the populace, why did you write to them, and
> > are
> > > you asking people to write?  Without knowing what is the question, how
> do
> > > you expect people to formulate a coherent answer?
> > >
> > > Or am I missing some key element?
> > >
> > >                                         ---= Morgan
> > >
> > >
> > > ===============================================
> > > Sometimes, I have looked back at my behavior and learned
> > > not to make the same mistake twice.  Other times, I have
> > > merely learned to make it again with more style.
> > >                                              ---= Marilyn vos Savant
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
"A clown is like aspirin, only he works twice as fast."
                       ---= Groucho Marx
"Start every day with a smile and get it over with."
                       ---= W.C. Fields
Go to to perform mailing list tasks.

More information about the Ansteorra mailing list