[Ansteorra] Courtesy challenge

[Michael Gunter]

>From: "Sir Lyonel Oliver Grace" <sirlyonel at hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." 
><ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
>To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
>Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Courtesy challenge
>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 13:52:05 +0000
>
>Salut cozyns,
>
>In response to Diarmaid's comment:
>
> > >I don't mean that in any sort of insulting way. I'm just noting that 
>what
> >we
> > >think of chivalric courtesy and proper behavior isn't doesn't go back
> >much
> > >before the Victorian era, and wasn't much more than an ideal at that.
>
>Don Tivar asks:
>
> >And where does that tie in with the whole "courtly love" thing?
>
>Andreas Capellanus (and many writers thereafter, at least up to Charles
>d'Orleans at the start of the Fifteenth Century) describes how a gentleman
>should act, look, and react in the presence and absence of the lady who is
>the object of his desire. This behavior includes all manner of ague-like
>symptoms that are not expected to preclude the gentleman's desire to behave
>in a courtly fashion. The real point of contention here is what constitutes
>"courtly" behaviour, which the French called "courtoisie" (the root word 
>for
>the English "courtesy").
>
>In support of Diarmaid's statements, I know of no courtly literature that
>suggests a gentleman do manual labor in place of his lady. Generally, to be
>worthy of affection, the lady is presumed to be of a high station. To put 
>it
>bluntly, she's supposed to be wealthy. She's supposed to have servants. If
>she's carrying boxes, she's fallen on hard times. Read Lanval for a similar
>circumstance (although in that case it's the knight who has fallen on hard
>times) to see how everyone reacts to poverty. It's viewed as a personal
>failing. Not having enough money to dress well and have adequate servants
>was viewed as shameful behavior--like walking around without a shirt on. 
>The
>polite thing to do in the Middle Ages would be to look away and pretend you
>didn't notice.
>
>Now, please understand, I am not validating such behavior. This is one of
>those disconnects between now and then that we can't fully embrace in the
>SCA. We'd all have to have enough money to afford to hire servants and 
>bring
>them to events. Instead, I think we're better off taking the more modern
>view of courtesy and offering to carry things.
>
>lo vostre per vos servir
>Meser Lyonel Oliver Grace
>_________________________________
>Micel yfel deth se unwritere.
>		--AElfric of York
>
>
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