ARCH - Interesting

[Mike Catron]

I am using golf tubes when I travel out of kingdom. I had to use them at 
Lillies War this past June. And I will be using golf tubes at Estrella 
War next week. The bow used was 40 lbs. while facing 50 lb bows at 
Lillies and I had to borrow that one otherwise would have to take the 
field with my 30 lb bow. I have thought of using them here within 
Ansteorra as a warm-up prior to traveling to out of kingdom war events.

Eadric Anstapa wrote:

> Actually the Society max for combat crossbows according to the Current
> Missile Combat Rules (available via the web pages)  is 1000 inch-pounds for
> Golf-tube arrows and 600 inch-pounds for fiberglass or wood shafted arrows.
> 
> I dunno about the 40# thing for golf-tube bows.  I have for a long time
> thought that was interesting.  Is anyone in this kingdom using Golf-tube
> arrows?  As siege weapons/ballista are becoming more common it seems like it
> might be prudent not to allow the use of golftubes with bows and instead
> just restrict them to siege weapons to avoids confusion.
> 
> -Eadric
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Dewart" <gilli at seacove.net>
> To: <ansteorra-archery at ansteorra.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:55 PM
> Subject: Re: ARCH - Interesting
> 
> 
>> I've always wondered about that 40 vs 50lb thing. Why did we shoot
> 
> ourselves
> 
>> in the foot on that on so to speak?  I know there aren't very many folks
>> around that use golf tube arrows, but still.  If you go some where else
> 
> that
> 
>> uses them, you're at a big disadvantage because your equipment is 20%
> 
> weaker
> 
>> from the start.
>> 
>> Also, if I'm not mistaken, isn't the Society max for combat crossbows
>> 650inch pounds?  So why is ours 600?  Or do we just like spotting everyone
>> else 50inch pounds?
>> 
>> Great catch on the footpounds.  I guess some times it's the forest for the
>> trees type of thing.
>> 
>> Gilli
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Eadric Anstapa" <eadric at barley.scabrewer.com>
>> To: <ansteorra-archery at ansteorra.org>
>> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 9:11 PM
>> Subject: Re: ARCH - Interesting
>> 
>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Harry C. Billings" <psobaka at mail.myriad.net>
>>> 
>>>> IIRC SCA rules take president over Kingdom rules. IOW you measure from
>>> 
>> the
>> 
>>>> riser back to get your 28 inches. If our arrows are 28 inches from the
>>>> bottom of the knock to the base of the head and our marshals know how
>>> 
> to
> 
>>> and
>>> 
>>>> check bows for draw weight as well as check arrows this is not a
>>> 
>> problem,
>> 
>>>> but should be corrected as expidently as possible.
>>> 
>>> Doesn't really apply here.  The MINIMUM standards are set by the
>> 
> Society.
> 
>>> Individual Kingdoms are entitled to me more strict.  The way it is
>> 
> worded
> 
>>> now, although weird and wrong, is actually more restrictive and limiting
>> 
>> on
>> 
>>> the weight of bow than is the Society standards.
>>> 
>>> I really like the way the society standards are written.  It is
>> 
> extremely
> 
>>> clear how draw length/weight should be measured (28" from center of
>> 
> riser)
> 
>>> and how arrow length is to be measured (28" from just behind head/blunt
>> 
> to
> 
>>> bottom of slot in nock).
>>> 
>>> These are two separate measurements.  The length of arrow is limited so
>> 
>> that
>> 
>>> people can not over-draw and get more weight/force/thrust out of their
>> 
> bow
> 
>>> and draw length definition is so that there is a clear measurement for
>>> checking the 30# or 40# bows.  Yep that's right folks the SCA standard
>> 
> for
> 
>>> Heavy/Golf-tube bows is 50#, the Ansteorran limit is 40#.
>>> 
>>> In reading the Ansteorran Complete Participants Handbook more carefully
>> 
>> and
>> 
>>> looking for similar mistakes (Since Gilli brought it up) I see that it
>> 
> is
> 
>>> worse than I could imagine.
>>> 
>>> Section 6, subsection II. Paragraph A., Subparagraph 2a says:
>>> 
>>> a. Have a maximum strength of thirty (30) foot pounds at 28" draw using
>>> legal wooden or
>>> fiberglass shafted quarrels.
>>> 
>>> NOTICE is says 30 FOOT pounds.  That is way different than simple
>> 
> pounds.
> 
>>> Since 28" is 2.33 feet that means that According to the Complete
>>> Participants Handbook using this statement and the also included
>> 
>> definition
>> 
>>> of "draw" the maximum draw weight for a bow is Ansteorra as
>> 
> traditionally
> 
>>> measured by modern and AMO standards will be 12.86 pounds.
>>> 
>>> It seems clear that whoever wrote this was mixing Crossbow and Handbow
>>> standards without success.  The draw length for a crossbow is measured
>> 
>> from
>> 
>>> the string at rest (not the bow/prod) to the nut (they call this the
>>> power-stroke of the bow) and the maximum draw weight for crossbows is
>>> expressed in Inch-pounds.
>>> 
>>> What is more strange is that I know that there are many marshals out
>> 
>> there,
>> 
>>> myself included, who have read these rules a number of times.  Why have
>> 
> we
> 
>>> not noticed these mistakes before?  I guess when you are an experienced
>>> marshal and you read these it is easy to read what you know rather than
>> 
>> what
>> 
>>> is actually there.
>>> 
>>> Regards.
>>> 
>>> Eadric
>> 
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