ES - Courtesy & Other Things

Arabella de Montacute ladyarabella at
Wed May 27 09:09:44 PDT 1998

     Ok it's my turn.  Some one very close to me had a discussion very 
similiar to this one about my using a familiar exchange rather than a 
formal one.  It didn't come home until Her Grace, Duchess Willow had the 
same very polite and gentle conversation with me.  Boy did it feel 
awkward because I had already heard it once.  
     Duchess Willow said something that sunk in to help me, If a person 
is wearing their garb (not mundane clothes) and definately if they are 
wearing their "brass hat" definately call them by their title.  If you 
don't know just ask, "How should I address you?" Believe me they'll tell 
you, because they earned it. I have found that absolutely every person I 
have met who earned those titles, is just as equally committed to 
teaching others about social graces, because those social graces also 
contributed to their receiving their title to begin with.
    On the other hand, if you're are like me and are terrified of saying 
the wrong thing at the wrong time, (which I have been known to do) use 
those titles all the time so you don't forget.  
    Ok one other question - What if a person has multiple titles????
His Excellancy, Viscount Master Sir Galen of Bristol?????
Her Excellancy, Viscountess Mistress Jeanmaire Illaria Beatrice du 
I know there are many others.

Just my unsolicited thoughts - Lady Arabella de Montacute

>Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 09:24:34 -0500
>From: Sharon Palkowetz <vivaine at>
>To: elfsea at Ansteorra.ORG
>Subject: Re: ES - Courtesy & Other Things
>Reply-To: elfsea at Ansteorra.ORG
>Ooo as a newcomer I would like to throw my 2 cents in on this one:
>I doubt any newcomer means any disrespect by not using a proper title,
>in fact, it may be the opposite. It can be intimidating to use the 
>one, so its easier to fall onto the old standby of Lord or Lady,
>especially if a newcomer has made the attempt, and corrected publicily.
>It can be embarrasing and a real confidence crusher. I've seen a
>newcomer try to use a proper title, only for a peer to chastise them in
>front of everyone.
>Its also very confusing. Remember in the mundance world, even corporate
>bosses are falling back to the more casual first name basis rather than
>Mr. or Ms.  It all takes some getting used to. I know at one point, I
>used someone's title in a casual setting and was corrected to not use
>it. Whew!
>I think a good class in SCA etiquette would help newcomers without
>embarrasing them or making them feel self concious, as well as give
>others a nice refresher.  It might also be nice to give them an idea of
>who is who in the area and how they like to be addressed.
>We all want to have fun and play the game right.  A nice handout with
>some locals names would be a great benefit. If something exists, great,
>if not, I volunteer to pull this list together.
>On a personal note, if i have offended anyone by not using the proper
>title, then i apologize from my heart.
>Axel , Jeanmaire & Diane Remes wrote:
>>  Jeanmaire here again! I just downloaded another 15 messages!  What
>> amazes me is the number of messages posted early in the morning -
>> between 6 & 7.  You all are just so dedicated! I just want to say
>> that, in regards to showing respect and using titles, I have noticed
>> that the people of this Barony are always very respectful to their
>> Baron and Baroness.  I ALWAYS hear Llewelyn & Zara Zina addressed as
>> "Your Excellency", even under the most mundane of circumstances, such
>> as "Your Excellency, where you you like your tent set up?"  On the
>> other hand, I seriously wonder if people are even aware that the
>> Viscounty (of which we seem to have a disproportionate amount) are
>> also to be addressed as "Your Excellency".   I, myself, almost never
>> am, nor have I noticed Axel or Galen being addressed in that fashion
>> except very rarely.  (Galen, am I wrong on this, or what?)  For my 
>> part, I would rather that people feel friendly towards me rather than
>> be exacting about my title.  Perhaps when I wear my coronet (which is
>> not very often) it would be nice to be addressed properly, but I find
>> that on those occasions, such as at court last Saturday, people are
>> more likely to bow at me and not speak at all.  (Am I too 
>> or something?)  Perhaps a short course, or a pamphlet, on courtesy 
>> modes of address might be in order here.  It could include how to
>> recognize the various Orders of Merit and Royal Peers, and how to
>> approach and address them.  Also, what to do if you can't tell, and
>> just basic courtesy, like, if you see someone struggling to unload 
>> you're not busy, helping that person is a good way to meet them.  
>> suggestion applies to ladies as well as gentlemen.  When I was 
>> I helped lots of guys unload their cars.  Trust me, it's a good way 
>> meet people.  From the other end, if you need help, and there are
>> people just standing around chatting, try asking for it.  It took me 
>> years in the SCA just to get an AOA, and even as a nobody, I didn't
>> find it difficult to commandeer assistance when I needed it.  Just 
>> politely. On a personal note, I would like to heartily thank all the
>> people who helped set up our camp on Saturday morning, when we 
>> late only to discover that Axel had to run off to a Chivalry meeting.
>> My especial thanks to Simone and her Lord, and to Lady Gwendolyn.  I
>> don't know what I would have done without you all, and thank you for
>> being gracious about my crabbiness.  (I don't take well to being
>> deserted by my Lord.) In service,Jeanmaire
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