[ANSTHRLD] documentation help...

Jennifer Smith jds at randomgang.com
Mon Apr 26 13:52:21 PDT 2004

On Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 04:24:37PM -0400, mattias at playbard.com wrote:
> I pretty much gave you all the information they provided to me as a
> submission on their forms. The first one simply is "Robert of Galloway"
> and he told me that he wanted to be english. I was certain I could find a
> google search but my question was geared more toward providing the correct
> documentation that would lead to a successful registration.

A good, cheap, book to get ahold of is "A Dictionary of English Surnames", 
by Reaney & Wilson. $18.95 from Amazon, at

It gives a few entries for Galloway, all as a placename in Scotland;
none of the examples are "of Galloway", but it does also mention a few
other possibilities. Oh what the heck--here's the entire entry:

   Galloway, Galway, Gallwey: Thomas de Galweia 1208 P (Wo); Robert de
   Galewaye 1283 ImpY; Michael Galeway 1359 AssD; John Galway 1405;
   William Galloway 1541 Black. In scotland from the district of
   Galloway. This may sometimes be the source of the English names, but
   there was probably also an English place-name Galway which has not
   yet been identified.

You can always point him at one of the dated examples there, and see if
he prefers one of them.

> The second is a descriptive and I was not clear on that I apologize. The
> whole name on that is "Rixende la Serin Noir". I had the same concerns
> about taking a simple translated phrase and trying to make it a name, and
> that was How I came to ask the question. Again I was trying to broaden my
> own knowledge to provide the best service to those that wish to have the
> names they feel best represent them while keeping with proper SCA
> herladirc documentation. I know others have registered names that are
> descriptive and was wondering on how do I document this given that I am
> not familiar with a resource which lists what is appropriate as a
> descriptive name and what is not.

Some languages go more for this than others; first stop is always a peek
in the books (if you have them) for similar examples. And, of course,
posting here is an excellent idea as well!

> In both cases the submitters just stated the names, spelled them out and
> told me their time periods and places.
> It would certainly make my job easier to send the submissions up without
> having to do this, but I feel that Asterisk at least deserves some sort of
> explaination or research from my local level then a blanket " well thats
> just what they wanted".
> I was under the impression that I was supposed to ensure each submission
> had either an approved book/page or three references from different
> sources.
> If I am going beyond the call of duty please let me know so I don't waste
> my time or anyone else's.

You both are and aren't going above the call of duty, in my opinion.  As
a local herald, you are supposed to help submitters get their paperwork
sent in, BUT the burden of proof/documentation/etc is upon the
submitter, not you.

However.  I also believe that a local herald should try to be as useful
as possible, and that includes working with the submitters to help them
find, fix, and otherwise come up with suitably authentic names that
stand half a chance at passing. When presented with a straight-forward
"this is what I want", I usually take a look and if unsure of the
registerability as presented (lack of documentation, poor documentation,
etc), the first thing I say is "Okay, but as this stands I don't think
it will pass, and here's why <explanation>. How about..."  If they're
still stubborn and aren't interested in fixing it, I just shrug and send
it on up, knowing it'll probably bounce and they'll be back to working
with either me or Arbalest (heh heh) to fix it the second time around.
Most people are more than happy to work with you to get a name that's
likely to pass; they just didn't know how to start.

-Emma de Fetherstan

Jennifer Smith
jds at randomgang.com

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