[ANSTHRLD] Arcus Majoris - Was: Rapier Tivar and Broadsword Pendaran
Etienne de St. Amaranth
star at ansteorra.org
Tue Aug 10 15:53:43 PDT 2004
The following is an issue that I have already discussed with the
Crown. Before going to the order with the "you cannot use" situation, I
have been seeking confirmation of the correct Latin translations (and
genitives) for archer (ie - rather than simply saying "There is a
problem..." I can open the conversation with "There is a problem and here
are some options and some things we cannot conflict with...). Since those
are provided in your email (thank you both for the research!), I at least
have something to bring to the table for the order and Crown to
consider. Lughnasad would not have been bad timing for my discussions with
the circle (since I first heard of the request), but you are correct that
it should not go unremarked any longer.
Concerning the enumerated questions:
At 05:19 PM 8/10/2004, you wrote:
>1. Has the Order been officially told that the Order name didn't pass, and
>probably can't pass?
I know they are aware from previous conversations. The order name resubmit
is almost ready to go back into the CoA process.
>2. Has the Order been officially told that the Order has no right to invent
>themselves a title?
For the record, the members of the order consulted with the Crown and knew
that the order constitution would have to be amended. (Good points for
things that needed to be done that most people would miss.) They did not
consult with the kingdom herald until after they had talked with the Crown
and settled on what they wanted. (Bad points and all too common with
general heraldry and the usual standard operating procedure for awards and
>3. Has the Order been officially told that a grant-level order has no
>inherent right to a special title? I know that the White Scarf, Centurion,
>& Golden Lance have muddied these waters.
The order (in communications I received) were aware that such titles in the
existing Ansteorran orders were traditional and not legal rank titles. The
muddied water you mention has led to a desire to emulate what has become a
repetitive, now almost "traditional" practice in Ansteorra despite period
>Again, they would probably like to know that it's illegal before they get
>used to it. Otherwise, we're (unintentionally) leading them on.
If the order members get copies of your email, I hope fervently that they
catch the last sentence in the quote above. It is a herald's duty to try
(in so far as is possible) to NOT allow people to incorrectly apply titles,
armory, insignia, and other things that can cause confusion as to rank and
precedence (which indirectly or directly can lead to perceived insults or
presumptions and can violate the fundamental principals of the SCA as to
period practice). Much of the urgent tone in your email, I perceive and
hope, is directed at not letting people get their hopes up or establish a
practice that they then have to change after getting comfortable or used to
it (since such change inevitably leads to unhappiness and hurt feelings).
I was supposed to be at Lughnasad and an item on my agenda was to meet with
the Crown and request time with the circle about both the order name and
this "traditional" title. A food poisoned (or stomach flu infected) two
year old daughter pre-empted that so I will have to begin the discussion
with the order (through the DEM for Archery) and Crown in a non
face-to-face manner which is not what I desired. As there are members of
the order (I believe) subscribed to this list, I have no doubt that I will
be talking to the Crown and DEM Archery by tomorrow night at the
latest. And, I am almost positive that word of this missive (in some form)
will start getting distributed through the order before I can even get to
start those discussions.
Star Principal Herald
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