[ANSTHRLD] Shires and Thank Yous

John Moore iaenmor at swbell.net
Sun Nov 13 12:32:25 PST 2005

Jayme, yes they go back to the days of the Canton of Gates Edge.  However, before this gets to a point of people saying no you can not have them let me explain.  These are not nor have ever intended to be orders.  They are simply a recognition of select people within the shire by others.  The Guardians of the Gate is giving by those who have received it before to one that they feel has shown that they are an example of what we believe one should put forth as a member of the shire.  Candidates are chosen only by those previously acknowledged.  The shire is asked to suggest possible candidates but the final vote is by former Guardians.  It carries absolutely no precedence what so ever.  Never has and never will.  One of the reason we do not call ourselves a order.  The Bella Luce is a scroll or token given by the group seneschal to the artisan/s that he/she feels has done the most work in the artistic fields for the shire.  Once again the Seneschal may ask the populace for suggestions but is not required to pick from those.  Neither of these are given out every year.  Some years they may have multiple people given these.  The medallions given out were originally made by Baroness Adelicia Braebent, hand painted and paid for out of her own pocket.  Mistress Annes Clotilde von Bamberg has made the last set that was given out I believe, again paid for by herself.  The Bella Luce's given out have also been paid for or donated by a member of the shire or the Seneschal.  We who are been given these do wear them with pride as they are given by our peers within the Shire but know that they bear naught outside of our little group.  With the above explanation I believe that it can been seen that we meet Kihe definition on B and C.  I hope this clears things up and thank you for the time to explain this.  

Lord Iaen Mor
Shire of Gates Edge
John Moore
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Joseph Percer 
  To: 'Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA,Inc.' 
  Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 1:06 PM
  Subject: RE: [ANSTHRLD] Shires and Thank Yous

  I would wager those stem from the days when Gate's Edge was part of Stargate. However, I couldn't say for sure. Star, if you're out there, can you weigh in on this?



  -----Original Message-----
  From: heralds-bounces+jpercer=gmail.com at ansteorra.org [mailto:heralds-bounces+jpercer=gmail.com at ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Maria
  Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 10:37 AM
  To: Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA,Inc.
  Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Shires and Thank Yous


  I'm a little confused then.  The Shire of Gate's Edge has 2 orders, the Guardians of the Gate (given for serice to the Shire) and the Bella Luce (given for A&S service and abilities).  They are both non-armigerous.  The Guardian was created many years ago when Gate's Edge was just a Canton.  

  It sounds like the order Prudence is talking about would be exactly like the Guardian of the Gate award that we give out.  If it's not please explain the difference.  I read her question and thought immediatly of the Guardian.  

  In Service to the Dream,
  Lady Elizabeta Maria dei Medici
  Maria Buchanan
  Official Worrier of House Starfire
  Hospitaler - Barony of the Stargate
  Hospitaler - Shire of Gate's Edge
  In the Stellar Kingdom of Ansteorra

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: Mike C. Baker / Kihe Blackeagle 

    To: Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA,Inc. 

    Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 1:06 AM

    Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Shires and Thank Yous

    You've got it exactly and precisely so, Prudence.  <f/x: waving "Hi!" - we've met in Robin of Gilwell's living room...>  

    In fact, I, and through me the Shire of Moonschadowe, got slapped reasonably gently for trying to institute something similar [MUMBLE] years ago...

    That being said, THERE ARE OTHER WAYS!  

    (A) Write award recommendations and submit them *as individuals* (at least at first) to the appropriate authorities:  the Crown, regional superiors, Kingdom superiors.

    (B) Give wordfame in meetings, at events attended, etc.  (B-Plus) Memorialize their efforts / achievements in poem, tune, tale and get same distributed "appropriately"

    (C) As a collection of individuals, separate from existence as branch officers and NOT using branch funds, give the individual it is desired to honor a nifty neat narfgobbler or batwangler or other whatsit -- accompanied by appropriate flowery words, which it is possible to render in the form of a scroll... 

    Distinction is that if the people of the shire do (B) or (C) nothing immediately gets reflected in the Order of Precedence.  Enough people going through (A), the recommendation process over time builds a reputation beyond the immediate group, and the cumulative effect is recognition by the appropriate precedence-carrying (or specifically NON-precedence-carrying) award.  (The Lion of Ansteorra technically carries no precedence in the Order of Precedence, does not confer an AoA if the recipient doesn't already have one, etc.  [paraphrasing Robin of Gilwell, current Oakenwald Purs.:] It is therefore among the most coveted actively-given awards in the Kingdom of Ansteorra, and is recognized throughout most of the Known World as being terribly and wonderfully important.)

    Adieu, Amra / ttfn - Mike / Pax ... Kihe 

    Mike C. Baker
    SCA: al-Sayyid Amr ibn Majid al-Bakri al-Amra
    "Other": Reverend Kihe Blackeagle PULC (the DreamSinger Bard)
    Opinions? I'm FULL of 'em
    alt. e-mail: KiheBard at hotmail.com OR MCBaker216 at cs.com
       Buy my writings!:   http://www.lulu.com/WizardsDen

      ----- Original Message ----- 

      From: prudencecurious at netscape.net 

      To: heralds at ansteorra.org 

      Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 10:07 PM

      Subject: [ANSTHRLD] Shires and Thank Yous

      Greetings all,

      I want to double check some information.  

      At my last shire meeting, they talked about creating an award of some sort to thank people for their good deeds, something far short of an AOA.

      Now, from my experience in the East Kingdom, this is NOT DONE.  (My shire back East got slapped six ways to Thursday for giving out a thank you.)  In no uncertain terms we were informed that shires cannot give out awards or orders, that is reserved for the Crown and Baronies; and if we want to give out awards, we better become a barony.  It was highly recommended to my old shire that it does absolute nothing that even has the APPEARANCE of an award or order.

      I toned this down a lot and said it in the business meeting for my new shire; it was my first official meeting as acting herald and I hope I imparted correct information. That is: "a shire cannot give out awards or orders, that is reserved for the Crown and Baronies."  Is this correct in Ansteorra?

      Ever a Servant,

      Lady Prudence the Curious

      Acting Herald of the Shire of Emerald Keep


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