[ANSTHRLD] FW: Idea for a Device

Mike C. Baker kihebard at hotmail.com
Mon Apr 3 20:58:43 PDT 2006


Ly. Catarina,
the imagery of the pegasus would indeed have been known to classicists & 
nobles of the target time frame to the very best of my knowledge.  (One of 
those "timeless" tales out of classical myth that captured the romantic 
imagination -- the winged horse who preferred one pure spring above all 
others, and the heroism of a single man [Bellerophon] who needed that steed 
to accomplish what was otherwise death to attempt [hunt & kill the Chimera], 
and *still* offered Pegasus freedom rather than break a noble spirit to 
achieve a special goal.)  Among other sources, astronomers would have known 
the classical constellation and the related story.  (Also, consider the 
prior usage within SCA heraldry and presence in the Pictorial Dictionary... 
in the minimal conflict checking I conducted for the proposed device, I 
encountered at least two examples with "pegasi combattant".)

As I understand the proposed device, a potential blazon would be

    Vert,  a longsword palewise [maintained by/sustained by/between] a 
pegasus and a dragon combattant argent, a chief Or.

HE Robin is right on one point -- without seeing the actual picture 
(emblazon), I can't be certain that "combattant" is the correct description 
of the relative position between the two beasts.

(Note:  as part of my personal efforts to improve understanding of *why*, 
and not just work from my gut understanding of SCA heraldry, I have 
attempted to include more direct references to the Rules for Submission in 
what you see below than I sometimes have in the past.  Commentary / 
consideration of this type being what it is, do not accept my pronouncements 
as the final word!)

May skirt perilously close to the edges of the "slot machine" ruling.  (RfS 
VII.1.a); attempt to address by maintaining/sustaining the weapon -- the 
difference between the two lies in the relative size of the sword; if the 
combatants were of the same type (two dragons, two pegasi), "between" would 
be sufficient.

Red dragon on green field not allowed due to Rule of Tinctures.  (RfS 
VIII.2, various subheadings)

"Better" design would typically be for the combatant beasties to be of the 
same type OR to drop the sword; however, there are examples of a sword 
between two different combatant beasts in extant SCA armory.  With three 
types of charge (beast1, sword, beast2), this does not qualify as simple 
armory (X.2)

Potential concerns / examples (from most recent known OandA, 2005Q4):

Andrew de Londres|0410E|d|Vert, a sword Or hilted sable between two 
continental panthers combattant Or incensed gules.
    1CD for addition of chief, probable 1 for type&tincture of combatants

Arx Draconis, Shire of|9101W|d|Vert, a sword proper debruised in chief by a 
laurel wreath argent, the wreath maintained by two dragons combattant Or.
    1CD for addition of chief, 1 for tincture of combatants (and *possibly* 
another for addition *and* size of wreath -- but I keep getting "maintained" 
and "sustained" confused w/o examples in front of me:  "maintained" is 
smaller, "sustained" is equivalent in visual weight to the creature[s] 
holding the item... IIRC)

 Caol of Bannockburn|8906X|d|Vert, two seahorses combattant argent, 
maintaining between them a staff topped by a harp Or.
    1CD for addition of chief, 1 for type of combatants (and by X.1 possibly 
another for type & size of weapon -- but "sustained" would be more obvious / 
less questionable)

 David Gladstone|0204E|d|Vert, in fess a rose between two rats combattant 
argent.
   1CD for addition of chief, 1 for type of combatants plus type of third 
charge

 Donovan Delane|8510Q|d|Per pale argent and gules, a sword sable between a 
unicorn and a dragon combattant counterchanged.
    Provides an example of [weapon:sword] between dis-similar combattant 
beasts; however, "prior registration does not ensure future 
registerability".  Clear by field tincture(s) and addition of chief, plus 
one-third of primary group.

 Eoforhild of Cantwarabyrig|9208C|d|Vert, two boars combattant argent, each 
maintaining a recorder Or.
    1CD for addition of chief, 1 for type of combatants; recorders are 
tertiaries ("maintaining") and may not be be sufficient for additional 
difference (if your client also wanted boars / a boar)


..und so weiter -- I did my "search-check" as far as Magnus Tindalo this 
afternoon / evening, between other tasks.

Adieu, Amra / ttfn - Mike / Pax ... Kihe

Mike C. Baker
SCA: al-Sayyid Amr ibn Majid al-Bakri al-Amra, F.O.B, OSCA
"Other": Reverend Kihe Blackeagle PULC (the DreamSinger Bard)
Opinions? I'm FULL of 'em
alt. e-mail: KiheBard at hotmail.com  OR MCBaker216 at cs.com
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