[ANSTHRLD] badge revision

Jennifer Smith jds at randomgang.com
Tue May 8 20:13:03 PDT 2007

Thanks to Hillary for answering some of Chiara's questions. My two cents to
follow, of course... :)
Chiara wrote:
> > P.S. How does one go about submitting heraldry for an 
> office in this 
> > Kingdom? 

Talk to Star Principal Herald, and/or me (she'll bump it to me 9 times out
of 10 anyway...)

Hillary wrote:
> However, you got me interested looking at the badges for the MoC. 
> Regarding the badges for the Ministry of Children, I'm not 
> familiar with the badge you call 'looks
> like a butt with a star on it', I don't believe I've seen that one.  

Me either. :)

> 2. For the Ministry of Children
> The following badge associated with this name was registered 
> in December of 1999 (via Ansteorra):
> 'Or semy of hands sable'.
> (I'm not sure if this if for the kingdom MoC's to use)

Yes, it was registered for the kingdom office, therefor all local offices
can use the badge also.

> 3.  Ansteorran Office of the Minister of Children: 
> The following badge associated with this name was registered 
> in October of 1987 (via Ansteorra):
> 'Or, a mullet of five greater and five lesser points sable 
> overall a point issuant from base
> gules'.
> (this actually sounds like the Rising Star badge, not an 
> officer badge)

Correct -- and if you look in the official award texts document under
"Rising Star", it gives this badge and has the note "(In the process of
being transferred from the Ministry of Children.)" That's not really a
'transfer' as just a change of designation... Probably an administrative
note would cover it (mumble mumble, more things to see to...).
> I confess I'd not seen the badge you created for the MoC, 
> that I find on the website at: 
> http://children.ansteorra.org/
> Whomever asked to create the current badge of a 'marching 
> kiddo' should instead have consulted
> with the Star Principal Herald about changing the current MoC 
> badge 'Or semy of hands sable', and
> if they had done so 9 years ago, a new badge could have been 
> widely in use by now.  
> While your design is delightful, it's sadly unofficial, as 
> you stated.  If it's registerable and
> the MoC wants to pursue it, the badge you designed could 
> become official. 

The design may be delightful, but in my personal heraldic opinion, is a
non-standard posture for a human and therefore probably *not* registerable
in any event. As it happens:

> Branches wanting to register a branch badge for the Branch 
> MoC somewhat defeats the purpose of
> using a common design, such as Waterbearers or Chirurgeon, 
> for ready recognition of an official
> MoC activity, I'd rather suggest they use the kingdom MoC 
> badge, unless or until an SCA-wide badge
> is available (which I was not able to find).  

Laurel precedent actually says "Badges may not be registered for officers
(including deputy officers) if a kingdom or corporate level badge for that
position exists." [Repeated most recently in Ansteorra, Kingdom of, 05/05,

In this specific case, there is both a kingdom badge (the "Or, semy of hands
sable") one, registered in 1999, and a later Society-wide one, "Per pale
purpure and argent, two roundels counterchanged" registered in 2000. We can
continue using the kingdom one, since it was registered first, but I
strongly suspect we won't be able to change it, and certainly cannot
register a 'new' badge for the office, since a corporate level badge now

For other local offices, they can only use the kingdom (or Society) badges,
not make up their own, if they already exist. 

-Emma, Bordure

More information about the Heralds mailing list