[ANSTHRLD] Conflict Check: Quarterly, Cross & Anchors

[Tim McDaniel]

On Thu, 20 Jan 2011, Jillian Birtciel <saintesun at gmail.com> wrote:
> Greetings Good Heralds All,

As usual, we evil heralds get ignored.  Harrumph.  I'll have to insert
an erratum item into the next LoAR releasing all your names and
armory.  Nasty, but it has to be done, y'know.

> I have a client wishing to register the device:
>
> Quarterly sable and gules a cross between in bend 2 anchors argent.

It doesn't affect anything, but standard SCA College of Arms practice
puts a comma after the field and usually spells out numbers.
"Quarterly sable and gules, a cross between in bend two anchors
argent."

Just to be sure: as the viewer looks at it, the upper left and lower
right quarterings are black and the other two are red, there's a white
cross overlying the edges of the quarterings, and there are two white
anchors each centered in the black quarters?

I dimly recall the Pic Dic or an LoAR saying something about period
anchors not necessarily looking like modern notions.  Does this tweak
a memory in anyone?  I haven't the time at the moment to do a
precedents dive.

> I'm not sure if that conflicts with:
>
>   - Marina Foscari <http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_name.cgi?p=Marina%20Foscari>
>      - The following device associated with this name was registered in
>      February of 1989 (via
> Caid)<http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_date.cgi?y1=1989&m1=February&y2=1989&m2=February&kC=checked>
>      :
>      *Quarterly <http://oanda.sca.org/glossary.cgi?p=quarterly>
> sable<http://oanda.sca.org/glossary.cgi?p=sable>and
>      gules <http://oanda.sca.org/glossary.cgi?p=gules>, a
> cross<http://oanda.sca.org/glossary.cgi?p=cross>between in
>      bend <http://oanda.sca.org/glossary.cgi?p=in+bend> two gondola prows
>      reversed <http://oanda.sca.org/glossary.cgi?p=reversed>, all within a
>      bordure <http://oanda.sca.org/glossary.cgi?p=bordure>
> argent<http://oanda.sca.org/glossary.cgi?p=argent>
>      .*

I am reminded why I dislike the default of glossary links.

Marina Foscari
The following device associated with this name was registered in
February of 1989 (via Caid):
"Quarterly sable and gules, a cross between in bend two gondola prows
reversed, all within a bordure argent."

> Do the gondola prows count as a CD from the anchors?

Rules for Submission X.4.e under
<http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/rfs.html#10>

     e. Type Changes - Significantly changing the type of any group of
     charges placed directly on the field, including strewn charges or
     charges overall, is one clear difference.

     ... Types of charges considered to be separate in period, for
     example a lion and an heraldic tyger, will be considered
     different. A charge not used in period armory will be considered
     different in type if its shape in normal depiction is
     significantly different. ...

I doubt that gondola prows were used in period, so I doubt that the
period test would apply, so the visual comparison is likely the
applicable test.  Would you say that they look significantly different
from anchors?  I would.

> Doesn't the bordure count as well, if I remember correctly?

     X.4.b. Addition of Charges on the Field - Adding or removing any
     group of charges placed directly on the field, including strewn
     charges, is one clear difference.

Danihel de Lindocolina
-- 
Tim McDaniel, tmcd at panix.com