PE - Structure tents

Thu Oct 5 08:31:29 PDT 2000

Greetings from Master Terafan,

	I realize that Marguerite did not mean to push my button, and I am
not upset with her.  

She did post some good comments in reply to me note that are valid.
However, there are also some follow up issues.  

1) About safety:  I have personally *seen* FAR MORE people hurt by ropes and
stakes, than I have ever even *heard* about being hurt by pavilinos falling
over.   I am not sure the comparison is consistent.  Safety is a very
important aspect and ought to be considered in all the things we do.

2) About wet ground/stakes pulling out:  Tents with ropes have the same wet,
soggy ground as tents without ropes.  The issue here is the intelligence of
the person putting up the tent and their CHOICE OF STAKES.  The only thing
the tent really has to do with it is how much wind it catches, and therefore
how much force it puts on the stakes.  

3) Just because a pavilion is square does not mean it is not a hub/spoke
design.  Just last week I was doing the math for Mistress Regina Romsey
about building a square (10x10) pavilino.  I am absolutely convinced I can
make a square one and make it look just like the square tents (that have no
ropes) in the pictures.  

4) I am not sure Marguerite looked very carefully at the colored picture of
the round pavilion (from the field of the Cloth of Gold).  You can see the
rope on the left side of the tent, and there is NO WAY that the rope is what
is holding the tent in that shape.  The simple laws of physics won't allow
it.  Something ELSE is holding it out.  The rope may be holding the tent
down, but something else is holding it out.  

5) My real problem was with the absolute statement that "they are not
period"  If we wanted to only go by the things we can clearly see in a
period drawing/painting, then very few people would be using perimeter poles
either since you virtually never see them in drawings/paintings.  

6) One of the things that may have been missed about the hub/spoke design is
that if it falls over, it does not fall flat like a normal perimeter pole
pavilion does.  If my pavilino ever falls, the hub will still be 6 feet off
the ground held up by the spokes.  The center pole will be at an angle and
will not be lying on top of me, pinning me to the ground.  I will be able to
move around and get out.  I am not sure the same can be said of perimeter
pole pavilions.     

I understand how soil types vary.  I would ask everyone to go around your
next event in sandy soil or in clay mud.  How many people are using those
plastic Wal-Mart or Coleman stakes??  We would be better off starting a
thread about the safety advantages of different types of stakes, rather than
berating people who choose to use a pavilion that doesn't need ropes.  

At last Double Wars, it rained for 7 of the 9 days I was there.  The wind
never stopped blowing and it sometimes reached as much as 40-45 mph.  I
NEVER had a problem with my pavilino.  It rocks and shifts and flexes in the
wind, but that is all.  My rectangular pavilion had to have the ropes
regularly checked/tightened.  I have made special stakes for it to ensure
that it will not blow over.  It survived the tornado at Pennsic 5 years ago,
no problem.  I would bet that my pavilino would have done the same.   I
would be even happier if I was never able to say "We had a tornado at event
XYZ..." but such is life.

respectfully, 

                     Terafan

Master Rhys Terafan Greydragon           barclayp at eucom.mil
University Chancellor, brewer and probably other things I can't remember...
Seneschal, Incipient Shire of Blauwasser

-----Original Message-----
From: Cherie Nolan [mailto:marguerite at ih2000.net]
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 12:10 AM
To: periodencampments at ansteorra.org
Subject: PE - Structure tents

Sorry I had to say one more thing in this illustration that if you look one
of the rectangular tents has no structure at all, no ropes, no poles of any
kind. The picture I
am talking about is the second wood cutting.  If this is not artist
rendition then how can you account for more poles at all how is the tent
held up. There is a horse going
in side the tent, there is no pole in the opening. If there is a pole they
didn't put one in, if there was a four pole structure in side then, one at
each corner then how
is the horse able to be at the corner where the pole is suppose to be. They
didn't poles in or ropes. There fore an artist rendition. Also the top wood
cutting there is
round with a bed in the middle and a table in the other no poles is drawn
put in. There is a bed where the center poles is suppose to be. Therefore
this is an artist
rendition. In both of these the artist has no accounting for any form of
structure no ropes and no poles. We know they had to have some but the
artist decided not to put
them in. The colored picture of the round, there is ropes and a poles
therefore it had ropes to support to tent and hold it. There removing the
idea that they had a
structure in it that held the sides out. The bottom picture the same thing
there is no signs of ropes or poles in the picture the artist just didn't
put them in. If you
follow the tops of the center pins and look for where the poles would
usually be placed at for a structure there is done. Just like there is no
ropes in these pictures you
are left with this is an artist rendition. 

http://www.greydragon.org/pavilions/othertents.html

Sorry, we can still be friend but not see the same views. Marguerite

-- 
Spinning Winds Pavilions and Tents www.spinningwinds.com
Kingdom of Ansteorra's Tent Guild  tentguild at ansteorra.org
Lady Marguerite des Fleur, 
marguerite at ih2000.net
4260 Arthur Lane
Beaumont, Tx. 77706
phone 409-899-1488
cell 409-892-0206
============================================================================
Go to http://lists.ansteorra.org/lists.html to perform mailing list tasks.
============================================================================
Go to http://lists.ansteorra.org/lists.html to perform mailing list tasks.