PE - Ger structure, continued (link to jpg)

[Todric]

At 08:37 PM 10/11/2000 -0400, Corun wrote:
<snippage>

>To me that reads the the poles themselves are cut at an angle, much like
>the flat roof poles Alan of Warhaven designed and that I keep referencing.

        You may be right about Mira's poles, but the 1 by 3's were (alas) my
idea, not Alan's; I built my ger several years before Alan did his, and his
was based on mine.

<snippage>

>I don't understand what you mean here. All roof poles radiate out from the
>roof ring and are thus placed radially. And the roof rings that hold the
>flat roof poles don't have "blocks" per se. They have openings that hold
>one to three flat poles (I've seen many variations on the theme).

        Hmmm. Let me try to describe this more clearly. A flat roof pole,
like a 1 by 3, has a rectangular cross-section, right?
        Now, imagine for a moment that you're making one of these old-style
rings. You have one of the flat ring pieces in front of you (you haven't
started any other assembly yet), and you set one of your 1 by 3's all the
way across it. If you trace the outlines of the 1 by 3 onto the ring, you'll
see that you've made a set of parallel lines, neither of which intercept the
absolute center of the circle. They pass to either side of the center, as I
said , in parallel pairs. They are strictly _not_ radial lines, because
radial lines _do_ intercept the center of a circle.
        The poles are radial, but the blocks which define the holes (in this
old style of construction) are not.
        

> My roof
>rings have always been made from blocks, one per pole, in which I drill a
>hole the diamater of the closet pole. Orignally I used 2x4's, but now I use
>3x3's. The iris effect you mention comes from a loosely tensioned yurt and
>roof poles that fit loosely in a ring which thus allow the ring to swivel
>around its circumference, thereby causing the ring to literally twist
>itself into the ground.

        Yes, what you say is absolutely true, but this is not the force I
was describing.

<snippage>

>You also weren't talking about round poles either. Since I know you've
>always sold the plans for and built the plywood roof rings and flat 1x2
>roof pole type yurts it was natural for me to presume you were still using
>that technology since you weren't otherwise more clear. I went back into
>your original post and nowhere did you state what kind of roof poles or
>ring you were using. Since it made no sense that one would need to support
>round poles with a cord laced through them, but it did if one were using
>the flat pole technology, then that's what I thought you were talking
>about. QED.

        Ah! Your assumptions were based on out-of-date data, that's all; I
haven't used those old techniques for several years, and I didn't refer to
any particular type of pole because what I was suggesting can be applied to
_any_ type, square, round, or whatever; as far as it goes, it could even be
applied to these nice spoke-structures I've been seeing.
        BTW, I sure wish I'd seen a dime from all of those plans; Ogami
_sold_ them; I was only asking for donations.

<snippage>

>Again this references the ovaling effect you mention you heard about from
>second hand observations. Personally I doubt that this is what actually
>happened when the poles in your eyewitness' roof ring came unplugged, but
>that's just me.
        <snippage>

        Well, I think I'm going to believe the witnesses, who were
well-experienced with their ger. (You remember Prism and Bellrix from Blue
Rose? It was theirs that suffered this failure at Lillies. I think Alan
actually built that ger.)

        At this point, good friend, I'm afraid we simply have differing
memories about those early days, and are going to have to leave it at that.
I recall looking up at the pole ends sticking thru the inside of your ring
and suggesting the pins to you, that's all.

>Of course now, as I mentioned above, I use 3x3 blocks and don't need to
>drill all the way through these since I can drill a sufficiently deep hole
>to seat the poles, and with the girdle cord and belly band I don't worry
>about poles popping out from the yurt vibrating in heavy winds. I make 3x3
>blocks and can ensure that they are 3x3, unlike store bought 2x4's which
>are in fact 1 3/4 x 3 3/4 in size. 

        Good to hear that you made the improvement; I always admired those
precisely cut little blocks and the work that goes into making them. Quite
impressive, that's a fact.

>>This cord works as though there were pins on the
>>_inside_ of the ring, keeping the poles from _pulling_ (not twisting) out of
>>their holes.
>
>But now I think I see what you are getting at and what you have failed to
>mention in all your comments about this cord you put on your poles. You're
>still building roof rings that are open all the way through and thus have
>poles sticking out inside the ring. This is where your cord goes, isn't it?

        No!  :-) :-) 
        I can't believe I'm doing such a very poor job of explaining this! :-)

         I have drawn a few rough sketches; This should make it all clear, I
hope. Look at <http://web.raex.com/~sburnell/ringdrwg.jpg>
         The top and bottom sketches relate to completely separate concepts.

        In the top frames, I have drawn (on the left) an example of the
old-style ring, showing radial lines (which by definition, pass thru the
center of the circle), and just below it the trapezoidal hole which results
from aligning the blocks (which define the holes, or slots in this case)
_radially_.
        On the right is a drawing showing the proper layout of _parallel
pairs_ (not radial), and below that, a view of the rectangular hole thus
created. This is where most folk using the _old_ design make their mistake.
They don't set the blocks parallel. (In both, the red areas represent the
placement of the blocks.)

        Now, forget all of that, because it has nothing to do with what I
was initially trying to describe.  :-)
                
        On the bottom, I have sketched a typical _modern_ ring, showing the
poles and the placement of the second cord, which goes thru all of the
poles. This cord pulls all of the poles inward, toward the ring, thus they
cannot come out even under the admittedly extreme circumstances I have
described. (Sorry, I didn't draw all of the poles; it's late.) This picture
was all that I was trying to explain in my first missive.

        If I have time, I'll take the digital camera to the Shop and try to
get you a clear picture, as well. I'm sure that'll be lots better than our
hogging the public electrons, which I imagine is starting to bug the folk we
share the List with. :-)

        BTW, if you want to see a little of my current "state of the art"
please take a look at <http://web.raex.com/~yurts> and hit the "New
Pictures" button; there's a sequence of 12 pictures showing one of my
customers setting up her 12ft frame (she supplied her own cover). Click on
any of the thumbnails, then use the "radio buttons" to flip thru them.

        Todric

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