[Sca-cooks] Re: [trimaris-temp] Re: Participation Membership Proposal/long/serious

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  For an accurate discussion, I am curious as to what office or person has all
  of the data regarding:

  How many current paid members reside in Trimaris (and what level of
  membership, monetarily speaking, do they hold) ?

  How many people (adults) attended events with site fees in Trimaris last year
  (the total number of adult site fees paid for all events)?

  <<<<These questions I don't have the answers to and do not know where you would get them acurately.


  Elric, from what I read in the PMP proposal (specifically the "Plan B"
  proposal), the insurance will remain a corporate budget item, currently
  estimated at a $75,000 per year cost (2002 Budget listed total insurance
  costs at 72,560.83 out of a Total Operating Expenses $543,287.58 and Total
  Expenses of $904,897.58). Part of the PMP does call for reducing the cost of
  running the Corporation to around $250K, by reducing the size of the offices
  and eliminating the subsidizing of the production of Kingdom level
  newsletters.

  <<<so that is $4268.40 or so per Kingdom for insurance and $27,589.80 per Kingdom for covering operating expenses at the 2002 level or $31,858.20 per Kingdom at that level. If you reduce the operating expenses to a level of $250,000, considering that insurance will remain the same or go up slightly your still looking at necessity of each Kingdom putting in $18,974.28 per year if they split it equally between the 17  Kingdoms.  That means at our present attendance of aprox 750 people per Major Kingdom event (Crown lyst, Coronation X 2 = 3000) and 200 people at the 2 Art/Scis (400 attendees) and say six other events that draw 200 people (1200 attendees), thats a total of 12 Kingdom events a year) thats $4.12 per person per event that has to be send to Society. Way higher than the $1 that was mentioned.  Also we have higher attendance than many Kingdoms per event and what do we do if we do not get that 4600 people per year at events. The difference would be taken out of Kingdom Funds? I take it that this fee will be leveled at EVERY SCA event, Shire level up. So then Trimaris basicly has to have 48 - 50 or so events a year  (just about one every weekend) within Kingdom averaging 400 people per event to get to that $1.00 figure per person per event.  True WARS will offset some of that but remember we will have to split that income with two or three other Kingdoms. And how do you split up Pensic, by number of people form each Kingdom who attend? Probably same as with GW, Painted Plaines War. Estrella etc. so it not really that large an input per Kingdom. So each Kingdom in the Known World will have similar number to make for attendance each year.   We are looking at something in the area of 850 events throughtout the Known World (US) with average attendance of 400 people average at each event. I come up with something like 340,000 people attending events each year to acheive that $1.00 per person charge being sufficient to support the known costs. I was unable to find out right off how many people are estimated to play on regular basis (paid members + estimated un paid members) But I used the numbers that are the known value in Trimaris for attendance. Of course the Aussies will have to pay something as well but I am using simply US as example, also I beleive that Austrailia is seperate as far as finances go?  So it seems that at least 400 people average will have to attend that 48 to 50 events each year for us to make the necessary numbers. People are talking about how they can only make three or four events a year, that makes it necessary for someone besides the regular attendees else to attend those other 45 events!

  the PMP does propose to "unbundle" the Kingdom level newsletters from
  "membership" and would require a subscription fee to be paid by persons
  interested in receiving a hardcopy of the newsletter. Under the PMP the
  Corporate office would remain a subscription clearinghouse; production and
  distribution of the newsletters would remain within the Kingdom (as it is
  now) but would not be subsidized by Corporate funds. It does not mention
  separating the Kingdoms into separate corporate entities, from what I
  understand. Publishing the newsletter in an online format is a good
  alternative for those who do not want to get a paper copy mailed to them -- a
  savings of funds and an ecologically "green" idea.
  <<<but how do we cover the cost of production and distribution (even electronic) if Corp does not subsidize it? Another cost to each Kingdom? I wonder what the cost of putting out the newsletter is now that would give good idea as to how much it would cost Kingdom and how much would have to be garnered from the populace. And what would that cost be to each person who wants it? I take it there will be a pay to view web site? There has to be some way to subsidize the cost, if you just emailed it to each person you cannot get paid unless it on yearly basis. So there has to be some collection agency set up to recive these payments? And those who do not have electronic access will have to pay for hard copy version send to them?


  The figures that the author of the PMP used to come up with some of the
  details are based on estimates from the corporate budget and financial
  statements. I would be more comfortable looking at the actual data. For
  example, he based the number of people attending events on the 2000 budget
  item of "Program Related Income" (event fees) which totaled $2.6 million
  divided by the average fees for an event (calculated at $10 per event per
  adult), with some estimation on how much came from the "large events" such as
  Pennsic, Gulf Wars, Estrella, etc. Even if his estimates are on target,
  having the true data would allow for a more accurate plan.

  <<<<I think his numbers are way off as far as how many people actually  attended events if you took average at $15 you might be more accurate and that figure means that there were something in the area of 173,333 attendees versus his 260,000 attendees. But with his numbers and $250,000.00 operating budget plus insurance you still need 340,000 attendees per year. Maybe he is including the insurance cost into the total operating budget. If so at present rates that mean they are talking about cutting the total budget from $832,337.55 (without insurance) to $177,439.17 (without insurance), thats reduction of $654,898.38 or aprox 79% decrease in total budget cost.  The idea of operating the SCA on about one quarter of what it cost now, no matter what the corner cutting is insane accounting. Unless of cousre you transfer most of those costs to the Kingdoms themsleves (ie the "FOLKS") say $32,000.00 to $35,000.00 per Kingdom. Thats about $550,000.00 of the total, figured cost cutting of 20% would be rational.  Where do you think Trimaris is going to get another $32 to $35 thousand a year? Remeber the 4600 folks a year attending events? Well thats another $7.00 per person roughly per event minimum. Once again based on average of 400 peopleper event.

  <<<<<<I am all for some form of re-aligning the method of operating and membership. Some way to get more people to Join or help support the operating costs. But his numbers simply donot make good business sense and there are tremendous gaps in his calculatons. First off the numbers he quotes for "attendance" most of those funds go to Kingdoms, not to Corporate. Now if say we figure a way to get 80% of the people that attended events last year at his numbers (260.000) to pay at $30 an event thats $7,800,000.00 in income seven times  (actually 8.61 times the total) the present total cost of operations. at $20 a year $5,200,00.00 five times (actually 5.74 times the total cost) the present Total Operating costs. Not likely to happen. So say we make it mandatory to pay to play, costing you $20 a year per person? Problem solved, we reamin at same operating system we have now and money to spare.  But what if we look at the $1,000,000.00 operating expense and figure that at $20 a head for membership, thats only 50,000 members, how many do we have now? What would the numbers be if EVERYONE had to pay to play? It is estimated that 100,00 people play each year (estimated, 2.5 events per person roughly) if 80% of them join after Pay to Play is enforced we still would have income from membership alone of $1,600,000.00 per year and thats if they drop membership to $20, that is still one and three quarters times the present total operating costs.  I would think something on the order of $28 would be reasonable and inlcude everything that is included now (newsletters, TI etc)and no surcharges at events, at that rate, if 80% of the people playing were members we would generate $2,240,000.00 that's better than twice the total operating costs of the Corporation in 2002 in membership alone. True we lose 20% of the players but then again we do not have to try to make sure that 400 people attend every event in the Known World.  We become stable enterprise from business standpoint and will be playing the game thirty years from now safely.

  These numbers and opinions are mine and are debatable points againt the PMP (plan B) concept. I think it is rosey idea but more of slick way to dump most of the operating costs on Kingdoms and thus on the playing populace. I estimate that even if it was possible to get that 260 000 attendees at the 850 events a year it would still end up costing at least 8 dollars more per person per event. IF the attendance numbers are less than that, the surcharge cost per person above the normal cost of the event could easily be fifteen to twenty five dollars and no recourse to Kingdoms but to charge it.

  In Service to the Dream
  Elric