[Sca-cooks] Spice Blends

[lilinah at earthlink.net]

Adamantius wrote:
>On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 11:38  AM, lilinah at earthlink.net wrote:
>  > In reviewing old messages, i find several times comments to the effect
>  > that "The Viandier de Taillevent lists proportions of spices for Pouder
>  > Forte, Pouder Douce and Spice Pouder"
>
>  Unless I'm mistaken, several leaps of logic are inherent in the above
>  claim (whoever is making it).

Here's one:

>Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 00:04:44 -0700
>From: swbro at mail.telis.org
>
>The Viander de Taillevant lists proportions of spices for 
>Pouder-Forte, Pouder Douce and Spice Pouder.  I tried his mixture 
>for Pouder-Forte, it was very like pumpkin pie spice, but with a 
>distinct after bite from the warmer spices.  Quite good.
>
>Eleanor d'Aubrecicourt

An earlier one doesn't state but implies:
>Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:00:31 -0700
>From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>
>
>we are asked:
>  > For those us who are new, what does go into poudre forte?
>
>Mine is a mix of my own devising, according to spices mentioned in 
>the poudre fortes and spice mixes of le menagier (1390s Paris), 
>Chiquart (1420 Savoy) and Taillevent (14th century French).

I recall at least one other, but can't find it...

I have Le Menagier's recipes. Anyone have Chiquart? Does he have 
"recipes" for spice blends?

>  I cannot find my copy of the second volume of Cariadoc's cookbook
>  collection, which may have Taillevent...
>
>  So, can anyone fill this in? What are those proportions and which
>  spices?

>It's my understanding that Taillevent has a list of spices every
>kitchen should have, but not, AFAIK, any proportions. Somebody please
>correct me if I'm wrong.

SNIP

>Will post Taillevent's list later, if I can...

There's an on-line version of some edition of Le Viandier, dit 
Taillevent, on Thomas Gloning's site in its original French. I 
scanned it (i.e., looked it over quickly) while looking for the spice 
blend assertion, and didn't see anything. But i thought i might have 
missed it buried in some recipe.

Here's the list of spices

ESPICES QU'IL FAULT A CE PRESENT VIANDIER
Spices Necessary for the current viandier

Ginger - Gingenbre.
Cinnamon - Canelle.
Cloves - Giroffle.
Grains of Paradise - Graine de paradis.
Long pepper - Poivre long.
?aspic? - Espic.
[there was conjecture that this is "aspic" and refers to isenglass, 
perhaps only my conjecture, i didn't note who]
[or it could be spike, which is another name for spikenard]
Round pepper - Poivre ront.
Cassia buds - Fleur de canelle.
Saffron - Saffren.
Nutmeg - Noiz muguettes.
Leaves of Laurel [Bay] - Feulles de lorier.
Galangal - Garingal.
Mastic - Mastic.
??? - Lores.
Cumin - Commin.
Sugar - Succre.
Almonds - Amandes.
Garlic - Aulx. [ail in modern Fr.]
Onions - Ongnons.
Chibolettes - Ciboules.
Scallions - Escaloignes.

The following for "greening" - S'ensuit pour verdir.

Parsley - Persil.
??? - Salmonde.
Sorrel - Oseille.
Vine leaves or shoots - Fueille de vigne ou bourjons.
Currants - Groseillier. [the real kind, not the raisin kind]
Green wheat in winter - Blé vert en yver.

To Distemper - Pour destremper.

White wine - Vin blanc.
Verjus - Verjus.
Vinegar - Vinaigre.
Water - Eaue.
Fatty/Rich Bullion - Boullon gras.
Cow's Milk - Layt de vache.
Almond Milk - Layt d'amendes.

Why, looky here, i found your post:
>Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 00:51:27 -0400
>From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
>Subject: Re: SC - Re: Spice Cabinet-what do we stock?
>
>I thought it might be nice to include a list from a period source:
>Taillevent's Viandier (Scully translation) .
>
>"170. Spices Necessary for This Present Recipe Book: ginger, 
>cinnamon, cloves, grain of paradise, long pepper, aspic [this might 
>be a mistranslation for spikenard], round pepper, cassia buds, 
>saffron, nutmegs, bay leaves, galingale, mace, laurel leaves, cumin, 
>sugar, almonds, garlic, onions, shallots, herb bennet, sorrel, vine 
>leaves or vine shoots, currants and green wheat in winter.
>For steeping, white wine, verjuice, vinegar, water, greasy broth, 
>cow's milk and almond milk."
>
>The two references to bay leaves and laurel leaves may be an error: 
>bay leaves are pretty much regarded as the edible form of laurel 
>leaf; maybe the second reference is to bay berries?
>
>This is interesting in that it appears to show some differences 
>between French and English versions of medieval court cookery. Note 
>the absence of caraway seed, coriander seed, cubebs, anise or fennel 
>seed, which appear pretty frequently in the contemporary (late 14th 
>century) English  recipe books.
>
>What would I add? anise, caraway, coriander seed, cubebs, fennel, 
>hyssop, marjoram, mustard, parsley, sage, saunders, dittany, and 
>pellitory (iffy).
>
>I'd also want some honey and some good oil, but those might not be 
>appropriate for a discussion on spice cabinets.
>
>      Adamantius

I am not convinced that "Lores" is laurel, called "lorier" a few 
lines above - although i know that spelling is not consistent in this 
book.

I will accept that "salmonde" is "herb bennet", although i haven't 
seen any (i have read about it in herb books).

Anahita