[Sca-cooks] Re: tips for making better pies

[Ruth Tannahill]

So spoke Anahita:
> So first, he suggests for the crust: make it with less liquid and
> more fat. The fat will repel some of the moistness from the filling.

Yep. I do that when I'm making pies that I will fill and bake that day. I
deliberately add a bit more fat (shortening or butter, depending on the
audience) and less water. But I find that when I'm making pastry to freeze
and roll out later, or pie shells to freeze and fill later, or transport to
an event and fill there, the high fat ratio makes them a little too brittle
for easy handling. In other words, if I'm going to make the pastry and bake
the pie then and there, I go with the richer crust. If there's storage or
transport involved, I sacrifice a bit of crispness, flakiness, and
tenderness for a crust that won't disintigrate. The more water you add, the
more gluten will toughen the dough. It will hold together better in storage
or transport, but you just won't get that crisp-yet-melting crust I can get
when I know the pies won't be handled a lot between prep and serving.
Probably why hot water pastry is so durable. It's a traditional picnic food,
used for something like pork pies, and needs to be able to handle a bit of
rough handling.
>
> Then, second, for the filling: make it less moist by pre-cooking it
> to some extent before putting into crust to bake.

I routinely do this with fruit fillings. I cook the fruit with whatever
butter and sugar I'm going to use, then allow it to cool before filling the
pies. You must let the filling cool. Otherwise you'll melt the fat in the
pastry and lose the flakiness. All the extra liquid will do is steam the
crust. Also, once the filling is cooked (sweated out is probably a more
appropriate term, since you aren't going for mush), it won't shrink as much
or bubble over. You can get a pie with a domed top that will stay that way
throughout and after baking. Less likelihood of oven spillover accidents,
too. As an added bonus, you don't need to add as much thickener (e.g. flour)
as you would with raw fruit. When I make apple pie, as I will in about 6
hours, I don't need to add any flour. The apples and butter turn out just
fine without any thickener at all.

If I were making a vegetable or meat pie, I would not dream of using raw
ingredients. I would definitely brown the meat and sweat the vegetables.

For custard pies, you really can't cook your filling. I prebake the shells
for 10-20 minutes (depending on size and thickness of pastry--for a standard
9" pie with an average crust, 15 minutes is about right). But I prick the
bottom with a fork and use dried beans to keep the crust from warping during
blind baking.
>
> I haven't had a chance to experiment and test this, but if anyone
> gives it a try, please report back.
>

The advice is good. It works for me, and I'm the official pie baker of my
family.

When baking pies for an event, I often make a few sacrifices. I go for a
more durable crust, which means more liquid. It's just easier to handle the
pastry without it falling apart. And I go for speed. Ideally, I would use my
food processor to cut the cold fat into the dry ingredients, then transfer
the result into a bowl, where I would judiciously add water until it just
held together enough to roll out. In production mode, however, I just run
the processor and slowly add water, a tablespoon or so at a time, until it
forms a mass and starts thumping around the workbowl. That generally means
I've reached workable texture. I know that's dough brutality, but it's fast.

Berelinde