[Sca-cooks] RE: Cannibalism , ritualistic or otherwise
el2iot2 at mail.com
el2iot2 at mail.com
Fri Apr 22 14:12:12 PDT 2005
not true. not wanting an argument. but I have been viciously attacked for my views. people who are not being rational, just hateful. not intended to refer to you
as to my ordination. you are making an assumption. your right, but is a closed minded view.
just my opinion
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] RE: Cannibalism , ritualistic or otherwise
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 16:53:56 -0400
>
> Also sprach el2iot2 at mail.com:
> > I know it is controversial, but I suppost my position. I have
> > studied extensively on the topic, and am ordained clergy.
> >
> > so, if you disagree or even if you agree, I will debate religious
> > doctrine with anyone who so wishes. But not here. Personal
> > conversation, off=line is always welcome. Joy
> > Radei
>
> Uh huh. Thank you for your magnanimous consideration, but it wasn't
> my intention to debate anything with anyone or even to respond to
> what you wrote. I merely answered a civil question in what I hope
> was a more-or-less civil manner.
>
> As for being ordained clergy, I'm glad to hear it, but the ease
> with which such a credential can be obtained is such that it's
> scarcely worth mentioning in this context.
>
> To be honest, I suspect you're looking for an argument, and I'm not
> interested.
>
> Adamantius
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
> > To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
> > Subject: [Sca-cooks] RE: Cannibalism , ritualistic or otherwise
> > Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 23:15:26 -0400
> >
> >>
> >> Also sprach <kingstaste at mindspring.com>:
> >> > Ana wrote:
> >> >> Ana
> >> >> PS: And the Eucharisty is a good example or ritual cannibalism.
> >> >
> >> > to which Huette responded quite strongly:
> >> >> I am sorry, but you are very, very, very WRONG!!!! The Eucharist is NOT
> >> > ritual cannibalism!!!
> >> >> Huette
> >> >
> >> > Well, I had to think long and hard about responding to this
> >> one. I take it
> >> > from Huette's response that she is a Christian of strong belief. I
> >> > generally shy away from getting into religious conversations because that
> >> > way lies madness (and usually hurt feelings). My initial
> >> reaction was "but
> >> > it is", and then thought that if that was all I said it would be fanning
> >> > those flames and it would turn into a shouting match really
> >> quickly. I had
> >> > to stop and consider if it was really food related, and I
> >> think it is. That
> >> > original communion took place at a supper, where there was actual food
> >> > present, or at least that is the accepted story now. Having
> >> studied a bit
> >> > about religious origins and knowing how things get changed
> >> around, I suspect
> >> > there are many other interpretations of what actually
> >> happened. I suspect
> >> > the symbology goes back to the examples Phlip stated and the ideals of
> >> > passing strength (and holiness) along with the consumption of various
> >> > aspects of the godhead. This certainly seems to be what is
> >> happening in the
> >> > modern celebration of communion. However, if the arugment is that this
> >> > ceremony is not ritual cannibalism, then there is some other reason for
> >> > taking in wine and bread and considering it a holy act. The holiness is
> >> > passed along into the act of sharing the food.
> >> > So, I am interested in hearing thoughts on the original event, the
> >> > symbology behind it, how the idea of breaking bread at a
> >> communal table fits
> >> > into it, and other food-related aspects of the question.
> >> However, I do hope
> >> > that it can be kept from becoming a religious flame war, as nothing will
> >> > come of that in the furtherance of understanding eating practices and the
> >> > reasons they figure strongly into spiritual observances. Let's keep it
> >> > civil, shall we, and try to examine this question in a way
> >> that we can all
> >> > learn something?
> >>
> >> It should be noted that I'm probably a heretic, but here goes anyway.
> >>
> >> My feeling is that the cannibalism aspect is of secondary
> >> importance to the sacrificial aspect. I'm not troubled by a lack of
> >> faith in such mysterious phenomena as Transubstantiation because I
> >> don't consider the question relevant: I don't _need_ to believe
> >> that that bread and wine are flesh and blood to believe that good
> >> is stronger than evil, that love is stronger than death, and that
> >> sacrifice under the right circumstances can expiate sin.
> >>
> > > The Liturgies of the Word and of the Eucharist are full of
> >> references to the Lamb of God, to the Paschal Sacrifice given to
> >> humanity to return to God in atonement for sin. The Eucharist
> >> liturgy also refers to eating the flesh and blood of Christ, or,
> >> rather, to Jesus referring to the bread and wine as his body and
> >> blood (presumably knowing full well he was to be the centerpiece of
> >> a human sacrifice). He points out that these are given freely for
> >> the salvation of humankind, and tells his disciples to commemorate
> >> the sacrifice in his name. He doesn't exactly say, "Eat human flesh
> >> and drink blood on Sundays," or even, unequivocally, that
> >> subsequent celebrations of the Eucharist have to involve
> >> consecration and transubstantiation. These are aspects introduced
> >> by literal-minded popes and theologians, I assume.
> >>
> >> As Phlip said, there's also an aspect of sharing in the divinity of
> >> the sacrifice akin to some cultures' view of cannibalism. But
> >> without that sacrifice, the rest doesn't follow: Jesus is the
> >> sacrificial offering, and the disciples, and later, the church, are
> >> there to share in and commemorate the sacrifice.
> >>
> >> Hey, did anybody eat Aslan??? Huh? Argue me that one! ;-)
> >>
> >> Adamantius
> >> -- "S'ils n'ont pas de pain, vous fait-on dire, qu'ils mangent de
> >> la brioche!" / "If there's no bread to be had, one has to say, let
> >> them eat cake!"
> >> -- attributed to an unnamed noblewoman by Jean-Jacques Rousseau,
> >> "Confessions", 1782
> >>
> >> "Why don't they get new jobs if they're unhappy -- or go on Prozac?"
> >> -- Susan Sheybani, assistant to Bush campaign spokesman Terry
> >> Holt, 07/29/04
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sca-cooks mailing list
> >> Sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> >> http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/sca-cooks
> >
> >
> >
> > joy
> >
> > --
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>
>
> -- "S'ils n'ont pas de pain, vous fait-on dire, qu'ils mangent de
> la brioche!" / "If there's no bread to be had, one has to say, let
> them eat cake!"
> -- attributed to an unnamed noblewoman by Jean-Jacques Rousseau,
> "Confessions", 1782
>
> "Why don't they get new jobs if they're unhappy -- or go on Prozac?"
> -- Susan Sheybani, assistant to Bush campaign spokesman Terry Holt, 07/29/04
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/sca-cooks
joy
--
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