[Sca-cooks] Comments on Documentation and Tomatoes Threads

[kingstaste at mindspring.com]

We have generated a very lively discussion here - so many messages today!
Those here on the Yard are probably not aware, but the SCA Cook's list has
been discussing this right along with us, and many interesting references
have been cited.  Kudos to Kinjal for stirring the pot and giving us an
interesting topic to explore.

Allow me to summarize many of the topics and some relevant information
regarding them.


Documentation for A&S Entries
Regarding what is required when an entry is put into a Meridian Kingdom A&S
Faire for judging.

>From the Kingdom A&S Judging for for Static Entries:
(http://www.meridies.org/as/as-officer-handbook.pdf)
Documentation: The judges have discretion in situations where primary
sources are not available.
Entries without documentation will not be reviewed.
1 point - minimal information.  (time and place of entry not included, all
tertiary sources or unsuppported Internet sources)
2 points - some secondary sources, but lacking support of major points
3 points - mostly primary sources if available, but lacking support of a few
major points
4 points - mostly primary sources but lacking support of a few minor points
5 points - exhaustive documentation that is organized and covers all points
of entry.


Tomatoes in Turkey
Bear (Terry Decker) writes:
	The botanist Edgar Anderson believes that the Turks were early adopters of
the tomato and responsible for spreading it into the Levant and the Balkans
early in the 16th Century.  The tomato is still a major crop in Turk and
there is quite a bit of tomato cultivation research in Turkish.  With almost
500 years and the experimental agricultural background of the Turks, I'm a
little surprised that there are only 8 strains.

It should also be pointed out that tomato seeds are found in archeological
digs is South America.  I have yet to see any cataloged in a Turkish (or
even Levantine) dig.  If the tomato is truly indigenous to Turkey, then I
would expect to find evidence of prehistoric use.  BTW, I have an interest
in seed counts and descriptions from digs.  It helps me understand the
spread of baking in early cultures.

It is also demostrable from the writings of Juan de Acosta and others that
European knowledge of tomatoes was from the New World.  Given the
interaction between Venice, Genoa and the Ottoman Empire, it is highly
unlikely that tomatoes were indigineous to or even being used in Turkey
without some knowledge of the fact appearing in Europe.

While I haven't read it, Grewe, Rudolf, The Arrival of the Tomato in Spain
and Italy:  Early Recipes;  The Journal of Gastronomy 3:67-81 (1988), might
prove enlightening to anyone interested in the early history of the tomato
in the Old World.

Try "pomi d'oro,"  golden apple.  AFAIK, the first person to publish this
term in reference to tomatoes was Petrus Andreas Matthiolus in the 1554
edition of Della historia e materia medicinale.  The tomato was described in
the edition of 1544, but not named.  Presumably, this is the first published
description of the tomato.


More Tomato Information
http://www.landscapeimagery.com/tomato.html


Foods of Rumi
Kinjal shared a recipe for a salad (Turkçe Pazar Salat) with me, referencing
writings of the 13th century Persian Philosopher Mevlana Jalaluddin Rumi
(1207-1273).
Urtatim provided a wonderful website entitled: Foods in the Time of Rumi
http://www.superluminal.com/cookbook/essay_rumi_food.html,
which includes this list of foods mentioned in the recipes:
wheat, rice, prunes, dried shredded pears, raisins, currants, almonds,
apricots, figs and plums,  onions, dried beans, honey and grape syrup,
chickpeas, eggplant, spinach, onions, garlic and vinegar, barley, pickles,
peaches and pomegranates, wheaten foods, notably bread and breakfast
porridge, and grain-based soups, sheepstail fat and clarified butter, butter
and buttermilk, and the spices cumin, coriander, saffron and pepper.


Paul Buell (co-author of "Soup for the Qan - Chinese Dietary
Medicine")writes:
(Rumi is) VERY famous. He wrote a dietary manual. Certainly no tomatoes in
his time. Turks did not use them (tomatoes) much until the 18th century when
the present varieties were developed. Love to hear the reference for this.
Turkish, in fact, has a rich literature of cookbooks and similar things.
There is, however, never has been Turkish literature of 2000BC....they claim
Sumerian, I think. First Turkish writing is about 600 AD!!


(Just a fine point here, that recipe also mentions "The dark famine has now
been attributed to a
volcanic eruption (Krakatoa) in 1334 that blanketed the earth with ash and
destroyed hundreds of plant types."

Huette von Ahrens writes:
The other Krakatoa eruption was in 416, and the noise of that eruption was
heard in China
and recorded in writings of that time.  Kelut did erupt in 1334.)


Scarlet Eggplant and other possible red foods

Jerusha, the Botanist provides this information:
There is a close relative Solanum aethiopicum -- the scarlet eggplant which
*does* look
very much like a tomato (see images at
<http://images.google.com/images?q=Solanum+aethiopicum&hl=en&btnG=Search+Ima
ges>
and could very well be what was used in medieval Turkish cuisine.
However, they are not _Solanum lycopersicum_ (aka the tomato --formerly
_Lycopersicon esculentum_)

1380’s – 1420’s AD. Tacuinum Sanitatis, Tacuina. Medieval Health Handbooks,
illustrated herbal manuscripts, largely based on Arabic writings of the
physician Ibn Botlân.  Cherries, Sour Apples, Apples, Mountain Cherry,
"certain varieties of Parsnip", Beet Root, and the Jujube are described as
reddish.



Substitution of ingredients

Kinjal states many times that even if the tomato did not exist, it is a
reasonable substitute for whatever red fruit was used.  The problem with
making substitutions is that you are getting farther away from the medieval
mindset, and we cannot truely understand that mindset even with explicit
written directions (which are usually not available).  Knowing what someone
in a medieval English, Turkish, Italian or Arabic kitchen would use when a
needed ingredient was not available would depend on knowing the seasonal
availability of ingredients common to the region in question, the religious
and dietary constraints of the cooks and diners, among many other
considerations.  Unless we've got a recipe from the same collection, we
can't know what would have likely been used.  There are good collections of
Middle Eastern recipes going farther back than those for Western Europe,
including the Anonymous Andalousian Cookbook; The Tales of Dede Korkut
http://palette.ecn.purdue.edu/~akcali/history.cuisine.html ; Medieval Arab
Cookery, by Rodinson Maxime etc. (Yeomans Barbara (Tr.); Roden Claudia
(Ed.) ) Prospect Bks. Dec 1998; A Collection of Medieval and Renaissance
Cookbooks, Vol. 2, pg. Misc-3. including recipes translated from Kitab
al-Tabikh (The Book of Dishes): Oriental 5000 (British Library) pp.70b, 71a,
74b.; and many more.

Using Tertiary Sources for documentation

Miramah related an experience with the Turkish Ministry of Culture website.
Bear also commented on the lack of concern of government PR writers about
historical accuracy.  Many cookbooks consider something "traditional" when
it only goes back 2 or 3 generations.  Without the primary sources to show
when something was first seen (or for our purposes, that it was seen in
print within our stated time period of study), it is not possible to
accurately document 'hearsay'.  The internet is notorious for not being
juried or reviewed.  As the original conversation revolved around the
discussion of entering things in A&S competitions, and because we (the SCA
in general) have evolved from our early days of little or no documentation
to an organization that strives for serious historical research and
recreation, it is important to understand that accuracy of source material
is considered to be crucial.  If you are inviting friends over to enjoy
delicious ethnic cuisine, then it just doesn't matter, but if you wish to
enter competitions that provide commentary on scholarly research, it does.

Whew!  I've spent more time on research and compilation for this topic than
I should have, as I have a project I should be working on for later this
week.  However, I'm glad to have learned about the scarlet eggplant, the
dietary manual of Rumi, botanical "centers of origins", and many other
things.  No education is wasted!
Hope this clears up some points for those that have read along with this
thread, now I think I'll go have some lovely tomato, basil and onion salad
for dinner. :)
Christianna

Thanks to many posters for information snipped and inlcuded here:
Signora Serena da Riva
Miramah
Bear
Phlip
Mistress Huette von Ahrens
Urtatim, formerly Anahita
Paul Buell
Jerusha Kilgore
Regina
Stefan's Florilegium (www.florilegium.org)