Netiquette and Courtesy (was RE: [Sca-cooks] STOP TOP POSTING!)

[Celia des Archier]

Just one person's opinion. 

One can both top post (which is not considered bad netiquette on most lists
and is only a pet peeve of a few) and edit (as I have done, but Radei did
not. )

Editing the reply that you are responding to should, at the very least,
include removing lengthy .sig lines and any tag lines edited by the system,
please.  We don't really need to be told that this is the SCA cooks list
multiple times, and remember - that info will be added to the list again as
soon as you hit send. 

In work environments top posting without editing is often preferred, as a
way to retain the historical thread of a business conversation, but "best IT
practices" for email often requires that you delete previous versions of the
post in doing so, to retain server space.  This principle does not apply to
a list where many folks are on digest - and to be fair, folks who are on
digest are often the worst offenders, as they often reply to a digest
posting rather than individual posts, without either editing or changing the
subject line to a relevant one, which is discourteous to those of us who use
threading to sort through conversations of interest on high volume lists.

It's all a matter of courtesy and consideration... something that seems
particularly appropriate in an organization which stresses chivalric values.
But you can't please everyone.  I, for example, would prefer to read either
a top posted response with a properly edited quotation, or one which reads
USENET style, with responses interspersed in between relevant *properly
edited* quotations (as long as attributes are kept clear), over one where
someone posts at the bottom of an unedited response, which contains just as
much junk as someone who top posts, and on top of that requires me to scroll
All The Way Down to find anything new and relevant.  The latter is, to me,
the hardest to read.  But while preferring "top post" or "bottom post" is a
personal preference, editing is both a matter of courtesy (for the expense
of other's time and bandwidth) and a matter of clarity and good
communication.  And shouting your opinion at people is both discourteous and
generally a bar to good communication. 

Finally, while people may believe that they want a "democratic" list, in
reality my experience is that a list moderator with a gentle hand actually
allows for more open communication.  On a "democratic" list, the volume
generated by list administration and conflicts can easily overwhelm the list
and prevent the list from being used for the purpose to which it is
ostensibly dedicated (just look at the volume that this thread alone has
generated just because people have been expressing their opinions.  Think of
what it would be like if we had to reach consensus, or even a democratic
solution resolved by voting.) A moderator with an easy hand generally
considers people's opinions, the purpose of the list, the well being of the
list as a community and, most importantly of all, often has a good deal of
experience with what kind of behavior can pull a list destructively off
track and with how to resolve those kind of issues.  I'm much more
comfortable in the hands of a competent moderator with an open communication
attitude, and since the topic of list administration rarely comes up on this
list, we rarely have conversations stymied and no evidence of "list nazi"
mentality and, even with high volume one can usually sort through relevant
subject topics with threading to manage the volume, I would have to credit
Gunthar with being more than just competent as a list administrator.
Entirely unmoderated lists with disinterested moderators can easily become
overwhelmed with irrelevant and even ludicrous content.  I appreciate that
this list, while it can get off track (which is acceptable by the list
rules), still remains manageable.  So, my "vote" (even through it's just
opinion and doesn't really "count") is one of confidence for the existing
list moderator and existing list policy rather than for a change towards a
more "democratic" and chaotic list ;-) 

Celia


> -----Original Message-----
> From: sca-cooks-bounces+celiadesarchier=cox.net at ansteorra.org [mailto:sca-
> cooks-bounces+celiadesarchier=cox.net at ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Radei
> Drchevich
> Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 12:24 PM
> To: Cooks within the SCA
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] STOP TOP POSTING!
> 
> agreed, but also do not edit out the entire thread.  if you post does not
> stand alone and make sense, then you have edited too much.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: lilinah at earthlink.net
> > To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
> > Subject: [Sca-cooks] STOP TOP POSTING!
> > Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 12:00:26 -0700
> >
> >
> > I'm shocked, i tell you, shocked! to see so much top posting going
> > on on this list!
...
> >
> > YES, I'M SHOUTING!
> > -- Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
> > the persona formerly known as Anahita