[Sca-cooks] Turkeys ARE Period! (getting detailed now)

[grizly]

-----Original Message-----
< < < < < I'm sorry, but the poultrier has to weigh in here...The Spanish
introduced the Mayan Turkey(different species than NA wild turkey) into
Europe by 1500. The birds were being raised and sold in markets in ENGLAND
by 1540 because HenryVIII put a price limit on how much one could charge.
By the time the Pilgrims left for NA they had already seen turkeys in the
markets to England and the Netherlands. The Dutch were already breeding
WHITE turkeys by 1670...
  The Spanish Blacks were introduced to England and there developed into the
Norfolk Blacks, these are now two of the oldest and rarest breeds of turkeys
left...the ancestral Mayan bird is in decline as well.

  Now, I have to say the word 'turkey' can be mis leading and we need to
know that Guineas have been called 'turkeys' for a long time before the NA
bird..which is why the NA bird was first called the INDIAN turkey...until of
course we realized that we weren't in India...

  sorry, ramblings of a poultry laurel....
  Johann von Metten
  aren't ya glad ya didn't get me going on chickens and eggs!! lol!!> > > >
> >

The rouble is that the word "turkey" has meant at least two different birds
since the 1500's.  Not knowing specifically which one is identified in a
given reference means we run the risk of misunderstanding the reference and
time tag.

My cursory reading about the subject leads me to the similarities and
differences between the "Mayan" and "North American" breeds.  Both are from
the subfamily Meleagridinae and Genus Meleagris; Mayan (Ocellated) is
species Meleagris ocellta and NA is species Meleagris gallopavo.  Confusing
the mess is that Helmeted Guineafowl are Numida meleagris.  Though what I've
read suggest that differences are small, the earliest dates I can find for
domestication of the Mayan (Ocellated)are in the 1800's; and everything says
that the Eastern Wild Turkey forbears is more likely what was transported to
the Old World.  I'd like the reference information about introduction of the
Mayan turkeys by 1500; that would add a lot to my understanding and clarify
some of my confusions. They Mayans are not sexual dimorphs . . . they aren't
distinctly different in appearance by gender . . . as are most every other
breed I can find through Europe.

Europeans developed the Black and the Royal Palm breeds at some point after
introduction of the North American Wild Turkey.  Americans seem to have been
domesticating the birds since colonial times, and breeding them in various
strains at least since the 1800' . . . they got serious about turkey
production and modification in the 1940's.

See?  There is a lot to know about "period" when talking about turkeys, and
we are stuck working backwards for much of it.  Even when we are talking
certainly about North American Galliformes in history, there's a lot to
figure out.

niccolo difrancesco