Squashes&gourds placed next to each other (was: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cream sauces)

[Finne Boonen]

eu, since we're on the topic of squashes anyways,

I planted some pumpkins this summer, I would really like to try bottle
gourds next year. My sis however was rather impressed with homegrown
pumpkins, so she requested more pumpkins for next year.

I've got some vague memories of biology experiments on peas (Mendel),
and know that squashes are very quick to crossbreed.

Would butternut squashes (for my sis) and bottle gourds grow next to
each other as different species? or would they crossbread?

Finne

On 1/14/06, Terry Decker <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> The term courge appears in texts in relation to gourds and squash, so it has
> been used as a general term for both.  I assume the source for Vitha's
> recipe makes the connection between butternut squash and Raviolis de Courge.
> The confusion between the bottle gourds and the squashes shows in a number
> of languages, because of their similarity and the fact the better-tasting
> squashes simply assimulated the gourds position in the kitchen.  (Bloody New
> World Borg.)
>
> Lagenaria is a genus rather than a species, specifically bottle gourds.
> Cucurbita is the genus for squashes.  Lagenaria and Cucurbita are both
> members of the family, Cucurbitaceae, which also contains the genera,
> Cucumis (cucumbers and possibly some melons), Citrullus (watermelon and some
> other melons), and Luffa (luffas).
>
> Lagenaria are found in both the Pre-Columbian New and Old Worlds, but the
> current opinion is the New World Lagenaria are accidental transplants from
> Africa due to ocean drift or migrating birds.
>
> Bear
>
> > how do you make the link from courge to squash, and specificaly to
> > butternut squash?
> > Courge resembles courgette, wich is the current day french for
> > zucchini. Afaik, european squash relatives are Cucurbitaceae
> > Lagenaria, a species whose fruits are only edible young.
> >
> > Finne
> >
> > On 1/14/06, Terry Decker <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >> I am assuming that Raviolis de Courge is what is first recorded in the
> >> 13th
> >> Century.
> >>
> >> While I am certain butternut squash ravioli is delightful, it is most
> >> definitely not a 13th Century French dish.  The butternut squash
> >> (Cucurbita
> >> moschata) is a New World vegetable.  The raviolis de courge of the 13th
> >> Century would have been made with some type of bottle gourd (Lagenaria
> >> siceraria).  Also, the modern butternut squash was hybridized in the 18th
> >> Century by Auguste Parmentier (IIRC).
> >>
> >> That being said, there is quite a bit of confusion about whether squash
> >> or
> >> gourds are being called for in the 16th and 17th Centuries, so the dish
> >> may
> >> have been made with squash before 1600.
> >>
> >> Bear
> >>
> >>
> >> > I am serving Butternut Squash ravioli for a feast on the 28th.
> >> >
> >> > The dish: Raviolis de Courge - Is a traditional french mountain-village
> >> > dish is squash ravioli with walnut sauce.
> >> > (Castrum de Guillermo.  Guillaumes was founded in the 10th century by
> >> > Guillaume II, Count of Provence.  Remains of Neolithic habitation were
> >> > discovered in a grotto in the Vallon de Cantet, 3 km southwest. There
> >> > are
> >> > other various signs of Gallo-Roman and barbarian occupation. First
> >> > written
> >> > record, 13th century.)
> >> >
> >> > Vitha
>
>
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