[Sca-cooks] 16th Century Pizza

Raphaella DiContini raphaellad at yahoo.com
Fri Aug 7 13:50:27 PDT 2009

My apologies if I sounded gruff or at all off-putting. I was amused by the article you posted and in the midst of an insanely busy day did a quicky reply which may not come across as intended. 

I've enjoyed Helewyse's translations for years and serveral times have asked her permission to use them as reference for a class or feast so she immediately sprang to mind. :) 

In joyous service, 

--- On Thu, 8/6/09, Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com> wrote:

> From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 16th Century Pizza
> To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 5:14 PM
> I should explain that I posted the
> pizza note because it's just another
> funny, well not so funny historical question that we have
> dealt with time
> and time again on this list and since it's showing up all
> over the web credited to
> this website I am betting we will see people saying they
> can serve modern pizzas
> at events because of this website and this information.
> Hey they have a source that says 1522.
> I would suggest the reasons we would not be seeing tomatoes
> on pizza in Naples as in
> "but later the poorer people of Naples added the new
> tomatoes to their yeast dough and created the first simple
> pizza, as we know it."
> is more a question of how long it took the plant to become
> established and produce
> enough fruit for it to become cheap enough to be used as
> the street food.
> Would something so rare and so expensive be used or
> available to be used as street food?
> We also have the new translation of Scappi so we can use
> that to establish what
> was being said in Italy during the 16th century, but I am
> sure the argument will be made that
> the papal court did not eat the street food that was eaten
> in Naples.
> I cc'ed the entire post to Baroness Helewyse so it would be
> in her in-box when she gets home from the war.
> I'm sure she'll be amused.
> We are all co-authors by the way of this rather famous
> article:
> "Sixteenth Century Italian and Spanish Tomato References"
> by *Johnnae* llyn Lewis, Helewyse de Birkestad, and Brighid
> ni Chiarain.
> http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-VEGETABLES/16C-Tomato-art.rtf.
> http://www.mkcc.rhawn.com/MKCCfiles/16thCITomatoReferences.html
> Why don't you (and anyone else that cares to respond) send
> your comments about
> historical /inaccuracy/ directly to the site owner at 
> lstrad at hevanet.com
> Johnnae
> Raphaella DiContini wrote:
> > There were variations of "pizza" pre-1600, but none
> that I know of mention anything about tomato. If you're just
> talking about flat disks of some sort of dough with
> toppings, most of the recipes that I've seen tend to be much
> more often fruit, sugar and sweet spices. 
> > Just a quick run through Scappi snipped Translation
> from Helewyse de Birkestad snipped
> > In joyous service, Raffaella 
> > --- On Thu, 8/6/09, Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
> wrote:
> > 
> >   
> >> From: Johnna Here's something akin to 'they
> spiced
> >> rotten meat and ate it'...
> >> 
> >> Pizza dates to 1522 according to
> whatscookingamerica.net.
> >> This date is now being cited all over the web as
> the
> >> authentic date
> >> for pizza with tomatoes.
> >> 
> >>     
> > 
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