SC - Charters (long!! Sorry guys!)

Ace aslyn at
Tue Aug 3 07:57:54 PDT 1999

Bri opined:


>The handbook should include kingdom standards for paper and ink.  

While I can understand your wish for maintaining quality materials, I disagree
with mandating a Kingdom standard of materials for all scribes.  Every scribe
has their own preferences for inks and paper - what works for them.   

>As well as wording for scrolls.

That is already in existence and is available throughout the Kingdom and from
Star Signet.  


>When I moved to Anseorra I had a friend who already lived there.  She told >me
that no original scrolls were ever given out.  

I hope you have learned differently.  : D

>She referred to it as the Ansteorran Coloring Book.  I lived there for a year
>and was asked to one original scroll.

Did you make your availability known to Star Signet and as many people as
possible?  Did you show examples of your work to these individuals?  

There is nothing barring anyone from submitting an original scroll for use for
a grant or lower award in this Kingdom (i.e. for a friend who is receiving an
award in an upcomming Court).  Have you considered this option?

>A laurel was supposed to do the illumination and I the calligraphy.  What I
>received instead of an outline sketch was a photocopy of the inked sketch >on
linen paper.   

This sounds very odd and totally unlike the process used by other C&I Laurels
and scribes in the Kingdom for original work.  

>I was expected to color it in as well as callig it.  

That is a topic that is usually discussed prior to the project - i.e. what each
person is comfortable with doing on the project - it has been my experience
that these things are not "expected" but discussed.

>I commented on the fact that the symbol for the award had not been put on
>the illumination.  

That is an SCA creation and not found in period.

>I was told by the illuminator that the colors of the award weren't used with
>the original used for documentation.  So the person receiving the award
>didn't have the symbol on their scroll.  

I've re-read this several times and I sincerely don't understand this.  Was the
illuminer saying that they decided to use alternative color choices other than
the documentation - if so, that doesn't correlate to the fact that a heraldic
badge is not on the design.

>This is bogus.

This is very confusing and, again, unlike anything I have ever heard from a
vast majority of scribes in the Kingdom.

>Completely original scrolls should be done individually 

I'll respond to this a little later....

>on hard pressed watercolor paper.

I would say that paper choice depends on personal experience.  One person may
like hard pressed, another cold.  One may like 2-ply smooth Vellum from
Strathmore, one may like Arches paper with a low tooth content.  Individual
experience is a great teacher.

>They should be sketched or outlined, then calliged, then guoached and >inked.

Again, it's personal experience.  I much prefer to callig first because it is a
heartbreaker to get all the way through with the illumining only to have a
unsalvagable problem with the calligraphy.  

>SCA wording and heraldry should take precedence over documentation.

I must disagree.  That is a defining difference of our Kingdom - great care has
been taken to research and create appropriate text - that includes intensive
research into period legal documents.  Our Kingdom (and this Barony) is home to
gentle who has three times been Laurel Soverign of Arms, and who has and is
assisting with the production of texts which are (with slight modification)
direct interpretation of extant legal documents.  Our Barony is also home to a
Mistress of the Laurel who is in charge of developing period scroll text (and
trust me, she is a true champion for the cause of utilizing period legal

As for "SCA wording" taking precedence, in my honest opinion, I must
respectfully counter that it does not fall into the auspices of pre-17th
Century recreation.

>I received my AoA in another kingdom and it was completely original on
>watercolor paper with no documentation.  

Although I am a native Texan, I began my SCA life in the East\AEthelmarc, a
Kingdom that is noted for its use of all original scrolls.  Upon return to
Texas, where I became an Ansteorran, I was surprised to find that we did not
give original scrolls.  For a time, I was one of the strongest voices for the
implementation of this process.  As I progressed as a scribe, I began to
actually look at the situation with honest eyes.  Yes, we are a huge Kingdom
which gives out a large amount of scrolls, but the defining reason that we do
not give out all originals right now is that we have significantly fewer
scribes who can do original scrolls than other Kingdoms.  Far, far
significantly fewer.  I would even hazard a guess of less than 10 total -
that's not counting skill level.  We are teaching new scribes, but that will
take time.  

>It is of much finer quality then anything I saw while living in Ansteorra.  

First, I would ask when you were in Ansteorra, and where you went to look in
order to make a fair judgment.  We have come a long, long ways in recent
years.  As for comparison to other Kingdoms, I would offer that every Kingdom
has its qualities which should be appreciated.  

But I have seen a substantial amount of work from three Kingdoms, and in my
honest and singular opinion, some of this Kingdom's Charters are far finer than
many original scrolls I have seen in other Kingdoms, and some of our original
scrolls are some of the very finest in the Known World.  

It is a misnomer that this Kingdom does not produce any original scrolls.  In
fact, they are some of the finest.  It's just unfortunate that many would
believe an old myth than take the time to look.


>Copies are good for practice and when scrolls are short, but they should
>never be the standard for awards!

That is a system that worked for the Kingdom you were in, and at this time it
will not work here.  This is a realistic solution that works.  This is an
enormous Kingdom with a large amount of scrolls being given out (sometimes as
high as 400 - 450 per reign), and surprisingly few scribes to do original

My lady, there isn't a bone of malice in anything I have said above.  I was a
strong objector to this system when I moved here, but my heart and mind have
since been moved by what I have seen.  It is an excellent teaching tool and
introduction to many new scribes.  We are consciously growing new scribes and
we do see down the road that we will have enough scribes to support a system of
preseting all original scrolls.  

In the meantime, a lot of good people are doing a lot of good work, and I will
support them.

That's just my long, rambling opinion, however.


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