[Steppes] An informal poll and February Populace

[Jessica Smith]

Ok the biggest argument to keep The canton site seems to be to me that it
holds a largely traditional value. And with and organization like the SCA I
can see how that can hold sway and bring up other pros and cause an rather
valid argument to keep the site. I've never been to the canton site, I'm a
very new member to the SCA and I've been to very few events.
That said, of the events I've gone to - One was held on College grounds, one
was Three Kings, and the other was Queen's. Atmosphere in two events -and
amenities in one. I honestly enjoyed myself better and felt more in the
dream with portopotties.
The one on college grounds  had heating (was in Colorado Springs soo...uhh
no we didn't get hot.) and bathroom's and the college opened the gym showers
for us. We had a large enough list field and all the merchants we could
stand all in the same place, but I had a very difficult time ever feeling
like it was more then just goofy looking clothes and goofy people playing
around some weekend in the mountains. However at Three Kings and Queens,
things were very much less goofy and I was able to put all the mundanes away
(except the cell phone.....dang it) and really take a shot at living in that
dream for a little bit.
Sites can be made "Timeless" and of course tradition is important but when
we are trying to be a part of a dream maybe we need to  stop so much the
back and forth... If Canton is not working as the optimum event place for
Warlord then lets work toward finding something better. Traditions and
memories have to be made and remade to stay something worth remembering and
most importantly redoing. "Redoing" Warlord each year is the goal after all
....isn't it?
Just two cents I felt like sharing,
Adelina

On 2/15/07, Michael Gunter <countgunthar at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Earl Gunthar replied to me:
>
> Number one, I'm just Gunthar. A member of the
> Steppes and feel rank should not be a factor
> in this discussion.
>
> >But the requirements listed above are the minimum requirements for
> holding,
> >not what I think Steppes Warlord shold be, but what the event is fact
> >actually is.  Eliminating any one of them is not merely makingt it less
> >uncomfortable, but changing the actual event.
>
> And, I guess my point, and the feelings of others is that perhaps
> Warlord is becomming something people don't want it to be.
> It's become a 5-ring circus because we have to include everybody
> who wants to do something.
>
> >In any event, moving to a site that without many rooms not usually used
> on
> >Memorial Day weekend would change the event into something it isn't, and
> >lose us a lot of participants.  Lots of people currently staying for the
> >weekend would either not come at all, or daytrip for their focus alone.
>
> But that is the case that is happening now with Canton anyway.
> How many people are on site by Sunday afternoon? Most of the
> people left are there to pursue their individual interests that may
> not be until Sunday. Even the rapier championship, which is an
> important part of the event, is sparsely attended and once that is
> over and the awards given that part of the attendance drops
> significantly as well.
>
> >Yeah, I know -- this was my view until Serena and I autocratted it last
> >year.  We were focused on financial responsibiltiy, and chose not to pay
> >for
> >the hall on Sunday, to save $450.  Then a group of anonymous Steppes
> people
> >raised the $450 and paid for the Sunday hall themselves.  This convinced
> me
> >that, although it wasn't that important to me, the hall was important
> >enough
> >to enough people, as measured in hundreds of dollars, to be considered a
> >necessary part of the event.
>
> I like the air conditioning as well. I like a nice big hall to hold court
> in.
> I like motel rooms. I'm not against them.
> If we can find a site with this I agree it is nice.
> But, although on paper Canton Trade Days fits the bill, the reality is
> that
> a lot of people hate the site. I think people would be more interested
> in showing up at a new site with fewer benefits if it looked and felt
> right.
>
> >"For one event"?  There's no archery or equestrian at Steppes Artisan or
> >Twelfth Night, either.  If Steppes is to have them at all, we have to
> have
> >them at our outdoor event.
>
> And why do we need the equestrian? Seriously, how many people
> participate or even really watch it? I love to watch equestrian, I'd
> like to do it, but
> if we have to cancel a nice site because maybe 10 people can't have
> the space for the rather demanding requirements then is this
> really important? Again, if you can show me numbers on the participation
> of equestrian to show it provides a major impact on the event then I
> feel we should make special accomodations for it.
>
> >Are you volunteering to be the event steward for a new Steppes archery /
> >equestrian event, or suggesting that the Steppes can abandon some of its
> >tradition and championship events and people?
>
> If a decent site could be found. At a cooler time of year, shoot, you
> could
> make the championships along with a fighting college as well. Make it
> a fully martial weekend. I see no problem with that and there would
> probably be more attendance at such as well.
>
> >These are both important to the Steppes; these are both important to the
> >kingdom.
>
> I agree Steppes Warlord is important to the Kingdom and always has
> been. I agree that sites need to be looked at carefully. I also don't like
> Hawkins for a variety of reasons and many of them being it doesn't
> provide the things you say are necessary. As well as it being too far
> away.
>
> But the fact is that numbers are declining and enthusiasm for Steppes
> Warlord is also waning. Some of it is because of Canton. And, as someone
> else pointed out we can try to find a site that maybe doesn't have all
> the requirements and if we don't like it we can go back or find
> something new. Also, us being gone one year may wake up the
> owners of the Trade Days site and not take us for granted.
>
> >But we're here now, and we are going to take part.
>
> So we must accomodate anyone who wants to do anything at
> the event, even if it could cost us a nice site? I'm all for inclusion
> but to force inclusion of everyone at one event at the cost
> of alienating sites or a larger proportion of people, must we do
> it?
>
> >Is it essential that they take place at the Warlord event?  Probably not.
> >But we get two events per year.  Twelfth Night, Steppes Artisan, and
> >Warlord.  Steppes is currently getting away with three because the bards
> >are
> >hosting Eisteddfod at Twelfth Night.  If it ever moves away, we lose an
> >event.  And of these three, only one is outdoors.
>
> What is to prevent the Steppes from hosting other events? We have
> two we are allowed on the calender. But I'm hoping to host a Cooking
> Symposium sometime this year. Does this mean I can't?
> If the event is off the calendar does the championship not count?
> We can't move the armored combat part, nor the rapier, nor the
> courts. That's cool because they all can fill the same space. The
> bardic makes its own space. Camping is a definate part of Warlord.
>
> But archery and equestrian must have their own rather large space.
> Actually, I'm sure that a decent archery range won't take up too much
> space and does not have to worry about being excluded.
>
> Air conditioning is nice and I think there should at least be some
> smallish hall at the very least. And most decent camping areas
> now have a main hall. Look at Camp Cimmeron. If we could
> find a place like that but with more flat space it would be wonderful.
>
> >So if the Steppes is to have fencing, archery, or equestrian activities
> *at
> >all*, we will have them at the Warlord event.  None of these competitions
> >will ever have the prestige or clout of the Steppes Warlord tournament,
> but
> >they will exist, so this is the only place for them.
>
> And I feel they don't have to be at Warlord to be recognized.
>
> >The issue is not whether there are hotels there, but whether there are
> >enough available hotel *rooms* on a holiday weekend.  Near the metroplex,
> >I'm sure there's plenty.  Canton has plenty of open rooms because of
> First
> >Monday.  But any other site as far from the metroplex as Canton would
> >probably not have enough extra capacity for us.
>
> This is a good point. But I think it also depends on where the site
> is located and what tourism flow is there. It is definately another
> area where we'd need to check with the motels in the area and
> see their rates and numbers over the weekend. Even if we have
> to pre-book rooms at package rates.
>
> >Go look at the archery range sometime.  The numbers may surprise you.
> >There
> >are significantly more people than there were entered in my first Steppes
> >Warlord.
>
> Again, let's see numbers on this. Also, as I stated earlier, I don't think
> archery would really be excluded on any decent site.
>
> >But the point is this.  As I understand it, we are debating finding a
> site
> >to hold our Warlord event.  Changing or reducing the event, or dumping
> >Steppes traditions, was beyond the scope of the project.
>
> Many people do feel that Warlord should be changed. There is too
> much going on, the site is unappealing, the hall is horrible for Court,
> people are leaving Saturday night or early on Sunday, and maybe
> some kind of revamp needs to be considered.
>
> >A four-day event doesn't have a single focus.  I agree completely that
> the
> >Steppes Warlord tournament is the high point of the event.  That does not
> >imply that other things aren't important.  Each of 638 people last year
> had
> >a focus, and the majority of them don't fight with rattan.
>
> But how many of that 638 were there Sunday afternoon? I was, and
> the site looked pretty empty. I agree that most people there don't
> fight armored. But I think we need to see what they are doing there.
> And with dozens of competitions between armored combat, rapier,
> archery, equestrian, bardic, children's, sewing, knife/axe/spear, etc...
> the already long Courts become more long as eveyone needs
> recognition. The Crowns and Landeds are run ragged and things are,
> frankly, boring a lot of the time. Maybe we need to see what people
> want out of Warlord.
>
> >Well, as mundane as I think Canton is, and as nice as it would be to have
> >shade for the camping, one of the aspects of a good site is that we can
> >hold
> >our event on it.
>
> I think we all agree on this. The objective now is figuring out just what
> parameters to use.
>
> >Please put away both the "flame proof suit" and the martyr complex.  You
> >didn't flame anybody, and we're not flaming you.  You asked questions;
> I'm
> >answering them.  You don't have to pretend that I attack people who
> >disagree
> >with me.
>
> The "flame-proofing" was an acknowledgement that often a dissenting
> voice in a discussion will generate some rather nasty viterol directed at
> them.
> It was a comment stating I knew what I was saying could be unpopular
> and I expected some folk to take exception to my words. It was not
> my intention to act the martyr nor to declare "poor little me".
>
> However, the tone of your statement was a bit more patronizing that I
> feel appropriate for polite discourse.
>
> >Robin of Gilwell / Jay Rudin
>
> Gunthar
>
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