[Sca-cooks] [mk-cooks] Re: Measurement Definition

Johnna Holloway johnnae at mac.com
Fri Sep 3 14:48:04 PDT 2010

I'll defer you in this case as we have an engagement to be at in a few  
minutes and we are leaving for that.

I posted the second post with more information to SCA Cooks and I'll  
post that to MK Cooks too.



On Sep 3, 2010, at 5:11 PM, Elise Fleming wrote:

> Johnna, you are Golden!  Do you want to summarize the preliminary  
> info about the size of a "dish" for the Forum or shall I?
> Alys
> Elise Fleming
> alysk at ix.netcom.com
> http://home.netcom.com/~alysk/
> On 9/3/2010 3:36 PM, Johnna Holloway wrote:
>>  I don’t think it’s that simple. I did some searching and will do  
>> some more later this weekend I found this book which indicates that  
>> pounds of butter (and dishes of butter) by custom varied in England  
>> in the early 19th century.
>> The Literary panorama and national register, Volume 1 [London :  
>> Printed for C. Taylor, 1814-1819]
>> edited by Charles Taylor
>>  for November 1814
>> Report From The Select Committee, Appointed By The House Of ComMons  
>> To Investigate The Subject Of Weights-And Measures. [Ordered by the  
>> House of Commons to be printed, July 1, 1814]
>> Account Begins on page 194
>> On page 195
>> The mortification of such discrepancies has even penetrated our  
>> domestic economy. A pound of butter is, in some places, fourteen  
>> ounces, in others sixteen, and in others twenty;
>> With the utmost deference to the motives which induced the  
>> committee to tolerate different kinds of weights now used in  
>> certain trades and professions, we beg leave to protest against the  
>> indulgence :—if Goldsmiths are tolerated' in the use of their  
>> present weights— because the mystery of their trade re-' quires it:— 
>> if Apothecaries are to retain drams and scruples, because to act  
>> otherwise Were contrary to the regulations of the college, why not  
>> indulge the merchant in his long hundred,'and his short hundred ;  
>> and why disturb the honest butterwoman  her rate at market, who  
>> composes her dish of butter in the county of Essex, of thirty six  
>> or forty ounces, while her neighbour Goodwife in Cam-; bridgeshire  
>> reckons twenty four, or thirty, to her dish. These exceptions  
>> undermined the general regulation formerly : they retain the same  
>> powers, and will produce the same effects: if. Goldsmiths and  
>> Apothecaries are allowed to err through learning— their inferiors  
>> in every sense, except in common sense, will most assuredly plead  
>> equal privilege, and think themselves warranted in erring through  
>> ignorance.
>> On the last resolution of the committee, that "a jury should return  
>> a verdict," &c. we shall only add—that such verdict ought to be  
>> returned by the Grand Jury annually : it is a very proper part of  
>> their province.
>> ------
>> Then for a measure that is much much larger--
>>    Ancient laws and institutes of Wales; comprising laws supposed  
>> to be
>>  enacted by Howel the Good: and anomalous laws, consisting  
>> principally
>>  of institutions which by the statute of Ruddlan were admitted to
>>  continue in force. London] Printed by command of His Late Majesty  
>> King
>>  William IV under the direction of the Commissioners on the Public
>>  Records of the Kingdom, 1841.
>>     Page 199-200
>>  Chapter xxvi The Venedotian Code.
>> 1. From the bond maenols two a ' dawnbwyds' are due yearly.
>> 2. The winter: a three year old swine; a vessel of butter, snipped
>> 3. The measure of the summer dawnbwyd is, a three year old wether;
>> a dish of butter as broad as the broadest dish in the trev, and two  
>> hand-breadths in thickness;
>> twenty-six loaves of such bread as we have mentioned before; c and  
>> to collect' what there may be of milch animals possessed by all  
>> within the trev, and to milk them once in the day, and only that  
>> once…
>> The Venedotian Code is dated 13 ^ th century.
>> By the way the well received volume titled The Cornucopia:  being a  
>> kitchen entertainment and cookbook  by the Hermans and reprinted by  
>> the Huntington Library, ©2005. reckoned that a dish of butter was a  
>> cup. But that may be the measure used in cookery within the kitchen  
>> and nor in the dairy.
>> I'll keep looking.
>> Johnna
>> On Sep 3, 2010, at 7:59 AM, Elise Fleming wrote:
>>> Greetings!  In puzzling out a recipe from "A Proper Newe Booke of  
>>> Cokerye" (To Bake Chekins in Lyke Paest) it says to take a "half a  
>>> dyshe of butter" to put on top of a chicken (which will be  
>>> enclosed in a pastry case).  Subsequently it says to take six egg  
>>> yolks and a "dyshfull" of verjuice to make a sauce for later on.
>>> Does anyone know how much a "dyshe" would have been around 1550?   
>>> The Hampton Court cooks found "an obscure dairy measure" from the  
>>> north of England (1800) that indicated it was 24 ounces.  Anyone  
>>> else have a better definition?
>>> I will say that if you are interested in Tudor cookery, you might  
>>> like to go to the Forum (http://www.tudorcook.co.uk/forums/)and  
>>> join the discussions.  I've actually gotten motivated to try some  
>>> cookery other than confections!
>>> Alys K.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database:  
>> 271.1.1/3111 - Release Date: 09/03/10 06:34:00
> From: Elise Fleming <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Middle Kingdom Cooks email discussion list
> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo at midrealm.org with the  
> line;
> unsubscribe mk-cooks

More information about the Sca-cooks mailing list