[Sca-cooks] pasties was Leftovers, questions and discussion [long]

Huette von Ahrens ahrenshav at yahoo.com
Tue Sep 7 19:48:11 PDT 2010

I posted this just a few minutes ago, but here is what I gleaned from the Oxford Companion to Food:

"The word pasty came into English, via old French, from the Latin 'pasta' (dough).  In the Middle Ages, pasties were often very large, and generally meant meat or fish, well seasoned, enclosed in pastry and baked (similar to modern en croûte dishes) ... Medieval pasties often contained joints of meat or whole birds; C. Anne Wilson quotes an ordinance of Richard II in 1378 for prices charged by cooks and pie bakers, including those for capons and hens baked in pasties.  Beef, mutton, and game were also used; porpoise meat, which counted as fish, was made into pasties for fast days.  Venison pasty was popular for many centuries, and was probably a status symbol, as beef sometimes was marinated in supposed imitation, a practice which appears to have gone on into the 17th century.  Butter or beef marrow were often added to pasties generally, to help keep the meat moist.  Smaller, sweet pasties were also made; one medieval type was 'petyperneux' (or
 'pernollys'), possibly meaning 'little lost eggs'.  Containing whole egg yolks, currants and raisins, bone marrow, and spices in paste made from fine flour with saffron, sugar and salt, these were fried."
The article goes on about Cornish pasties, which were invented in the 18th century.  They also mention several other kinds of pasties which were invented in the 19th century, such as Forfar bridie, from Scotland, a Somerset pastie called 'priddy oggy', which was filled with pork and had cheese in the pastry, and Bedfordshire clangers, which had meat in one side and a sweet filling in the other.


--- On Tue, 9/7/10, Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com> wrote:

> From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pasties was Leftovers, questions and discussion [long]
> To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Date: Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 4:44 PM
> You should check the SCA Cooks
> archives for what was said about pasties
> on this list in July 2007 and a certain article in TI.
> One of the posts read:
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 1:28 PM
>   Subject: [Sca-Cooks] Pasties article in the new
> T.I.
>   I assume from the lack of anguished howls on the
> list that nobody
>   else has read it yet.
>   The author wants to make Cornish pasties in the SCA.
> She is unable to
>   find any period recipes for pasties. She finds
> several passages in
>   period literature that refer to "pasties," with no
> explanation of
>   what the term means; one of them, from Shakespeare,
> refers to people
>   having "a pasty" to dinner, which pretty clearly has
> to be something
>   bigger than a Cornish pasty.
>   So she combines a modern pastry recipe out of a
> secondary source, no
>   period source given, with the filling from Le
> Menagier's mushroom
>   tarts, makes them in the form of a Cornish pasty,
> and having so
>   "documented" pasties proceeds to give a second
> recipe derived by
>   taking a modern recipe for Cornish pasty and
> replacing the potatoes
>   by turnips.
>   And T.I. publishes it.
>   As it happens, Chiquart has a pasty recipe--which,
> needless to say,
>   has very little in common with either of hers.
>   --
>   David/Cariadoc
> ---
> It all makes for interesting reading even three years on.
> Johnnae
> On Sep 7, 2010, at 7:10 PM, wheezul at canby.com
> wrote:
> > Is the point of contention both meat and vegetable
> matter together in the
> > pastry?  I'd find it really helpful to know what
> the period pasties were
> > like :)
> > Katherine
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