[Sca-cooks] Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 71, Issue 9

d. hillers incrosscircle at yahoo.com
Sat Mar 3 21:30:09 PST 2012


greetings, 


thanks for the initial info.  since my persona lives between Nuremburg and Venice running legal errands for the Emperor's court in the last quarter of the 15th C- first quarter of the 16th C and is affluent, let's go for cuisine that fits that.  my family is mundanely german, and i spent 3.5 happy years in Drachenwald to kinda back that up.

yes, i am trying to round out my experience for A&S and also develop some new skills.  i can't spent my whole SCA life doing gilding and Illuminating stuff at 3am the night before the event....i've done it for way too many years as it is.... ; )

speaking of...what would happen if i submitted a gilded marzipan subtlety of say, a fish...as an entry?


thanks

Iohannes

 
Do all the good you can, 
By all the means you can,
In all the ways you can, 
In all the places you can, 
At all the times you can, 
To all the people you can, 
As long as you ever can.
--attributed to Joseph (John) Wesley 1735



________________________________
 From: "sca-cooks-request at lists.ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks-request at lists.ansteorra.org>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org 
Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 12:56 PM
Subject: Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 71, Issue 9
 
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Looking for "Celtic" foods,    especially "finger foods"
      (David Friedman)
   2. Re: Looking for "Celtic" foods,    especially "finger foods"
      (David Friedman)
   3. Re: Looking for "Celtic" foods,    especially "finger foods" (Tre)
   4. Re: Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 71, Issue 6 (Terry Decker)
   5. Interesting CNN article on dining ettiquette... (Saint Phlip)
   6. Re: Looking for "Celtic" foods,    especially "finger foods"
      (Susan Fox)
   7. Re: Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 71, Issue 6 (Susan Lin)
   8. Re: Looking for "Celtic" foods,    especially "finger foods"
      (Susan Lin)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 23:58:38 -0800
From: "David Friedman"  <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA  <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for "Celtic" foods,    especially
    "finger foods"
Message-ID: <07FB55C582EBC478860221B8D77F0207A at daviddfriedman.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

At Fri, 2 Mar 2012 09:23:00 -0800 (PST), Raphaella DiContini wrote:

>I was thinking of small meat pies if I can find some Scottish, Irish, or Welsh sources. Perhaps something like oatcakes too, 

My conjectural oat cake recipe (in the Miscellany, available on my site as a pdf) is based on Froissart's description of how Scottish troopers fed themselves on campaign.

I think that's the only recipe I have that is in any reasonable sense celtic.

David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 23:58:44 -0800
From: "David Friedman"  <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA  <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for "Celtic" foods,    especially
    "finger foods"
Message-ID: <0B8F08876E2904B409E629B1E97FB3F at daviddfriedman.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

At Fri, 02 Mar 2012 10:36:15 -0800, Susan Fox wrote:
>
>
>Celtic, eh?
>
>Here are my full notes about CORNISH PASTIES, As seen on THE SECRET LIFE 
>OF... PIES
...


>Authentic options and lore:
>
>Pronounce it PAST-TEE not PASTE-TEE or your English friends will all 
>laugh at you. A Pasty Pastie is not at all nice to eat. This is not food 
>from the future but from the past-ee!

>Pasties in literature:
>
> From Chretien de Troyes' 12th Century ?Tales of the Knights? 'Next 
>Guivret opened a chest and took out two pasties. "My friend," said he, 
>"Now try a little of these cold pasties ..."' Don't forget, King Arthur 
>was from this part of the world; his mother was Ygraine, Queen of Cornwall.

This could be interpreted as implying that you are describing a period dish. As you probably realize, Cornish pasties are not--as might be suggested by the potatoes in the recipe. The fact that there is a word in French in the 12th century that can be translated as "pasties" does not mean that the 18th century Cornish pasty is period, or even that there was a period food that was similar.

David/Cariadoc
www.daviddfriedman.com
daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 01:52:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Tre <trekatz at yahoo.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for "Celtic" foods,    especially
    "finger foods"
Message-ID:
    <1330768367.3554.YahooMailClassic at web120403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

http://www.propercornish.co.uk/pasty-heritage.html
http://www.hu.mtu.edu/vup/pasty/history.htm

Many sites talking about Cornish Pasties and their history seem to mention pasties going back as far as the 1300's, even if the current recipe dates closer to the 1800's. I'm sending links to two of them which give different historical references.

This could be interpreted as implying that you are describing a period dish. As you probably realize, Cornish pasties are not--as might be suggested by the potatoes in the recipe. The fact that there is a word in French in the 12th century that can be translated as "pasties" does not mean that the 18th century Cornish pasty is period, or even that there was a period food that was similar.



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 09:11:04 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "d. hillers" <incrosscircle at yahoo.com>,    "Cooks within the SCA"
    <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 71, Issue 6
Message-ID: <A31AA78A93AB4D7894648FEAD00A2FBF at TerryPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
    reply-type=original

Please clip your posts.  Resending an entire digest causes problems for many 
people on the list, especially those receiving the digest.

Research for A&S can run the gamut from working directly from cookbooks such 
as Pleyn Delight to translating and preparing recipes from period texts.  We 
have had some epic debates over just this question.  In practice, 
documentation standards for A&S vary by kingdom.  You will find some of the 
commentary at http://www.florilegium.org/ .  The site contains many things 
SCA and the food sections will give you an idea of what we have discussed 
over the years.

I no longer compete so I don't worry about the SCA standards for A&S.  My 
standard is to produce a product that would be accepted for presentation at 
a symposium of historians.  My results often do not meet that standard, but 
I keep working at it.  I have been cooking for about 50 years, and working 
at historical cooking and culinary history for about 30.  In that time I 
have gone from preparing feasts that were "sort of period" to preparing 
feasts of specific time and place from period sources and refining my 
research.  The fact is, you will set your standard, just as everyone on this 
list has set their's.

>From the time I have been on this list, I can provide a small suggestion, 
the more specific and focused you can make a question, the (usually) better 
and more refined answer you will receive.

Bear


----- Original Message ----- 

(unlurk)


greetings to this list, and the cooks herein ; )

i'm a fairly accomplished savories cook mundanely as yet another hobby, 
don't do bad in pastry either...but is there a FAQ or other introduction 
site for the "Hardware and Software" to do SCA cooking at the A&S and 
personal level? i have Pleyn Delit, and have a few other cookbooks, but i'd 
like to know more about what is considered good research and practice in SCA 
cookery, and if someone can point me in the right direction, i'd be obliged.

thanks

HL Iohannes
Midrealm



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 10:12:59 -0500
From: Saint Phlip <phlip at 99main.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Interesting CNN article on dining ettiquette...
Message-ID:
    <CAA3uHKx+k_r2wudim+Gr2W1kRDFU=5OBZvQFKOL6O_bQocsSKw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/02/29/travel/international-food-etiquette-rules/index.html?iref=obinsite

-- 
Saint Phlip

So, you think your data is safe?
http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/23/schneier.google.hacking/index.html?hpt=T2

Heat it up
Hit it hard
Repent as necessary.

Priorities:

It's the smith who makes the tools, not the tools which make the smith.

.I never wanted to see anybody die, but there are a few obituary
notices I have read with pleasure. -Clarence Darrow


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2012 09:14:55 -0800
From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for "Celtic" foods,    especially
    "finger foods"
Message-ID: <4F52518F.2000903 at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Cariadoc wrote:
> This could be interpreted as implying that you are describing a period dish. As you probably realize, Cornish pasties are not--as might be suggested by the potatoes in the recipe. The fact that there is a word in French in the 12th century that can be translated as "pasties" does not mean that the 18th century Cornish pasty is period, or even that there was a period food that was similar.
>

I realize this, and I also realize that the potatoes are a dead 
give-away to relatively modern recipe.  These notes were from my work 
for a TV show that did not ask for a medieval recipe, they just wanted 
Cornish Pasties and that's what they got.  However, if you swap the 
'taters out for more turnips [not swedes - that's another modern rant], 
I call it "conjecturally period" for the lady's purposes.

I love hais, you turned me on to them, but I can't honestly call those 
"Celtic".

Cheers,
Selene


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 10:51:07 -0700
From: Susan Lin <susanrlin at gmail.com>
To: "d. hillers" <incrosscircle at yahoo.com>,     Cooks within the SCA
    <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 71, Issue 6
Message-ID:
    <CAHkO8TS0jH+x_O13aTfJBpywCkVmwJByqV1DR6SOoZYjuU8VSg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

This list is full of very knowledgeable people and then there's me.  I know
a little and need to learn a lot.

Bear is right (of course), the more specific your question, the more likely
you'll get responses that works for you.
What type of cuisine are you trying to create?  Are you interested in 1400
German, 1060 England, 1325 Persian?

Just as an example, a recent discussion centered around Lent and what would
and would not be appropriate.  We have several individuals who are trying
to maintain a Lenten diet that would have been appropriate for their
persona.  A very noble endeavor.

Welcome.

Shoshanah

On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 11:17 PM, d. hillers <incrosscircle at yahoo.com> wrote:

> (unlurk)
>
>
> greetings to this list, and the cooks herein  ; )
>
> i'm a fairly accomplished savories cook mundanely as yet another hobby,
> don't do bad in pastry either...but is there a FAQ or other introduction
> site for the "Hardware and Software" to do SCA cooking at the A&S and
> personal level?  i have Pleyn Delit, and have a few other cookbooks, but
> i'd like to know more about what is considered good research and practice
> in SCA cookery, and if someone can point me in the right direction, i'd be
> obliged.
>
> thanks
>
> HL Iohannes
> Midrealm
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 10:56:40 -0700
From: Susan Lin <susanrlin at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for "Celtic" foods,    especially
    "finger foods"
Message-ID:
    <CAHkO8TSTKmvm_tNnfrLYb14fHr2LWuZNKx6LkCoDxrXASxZasA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I thought part of the deal with pasties was that the dough was not to be
eaten.  Rather it was to contain the inside when the workers left home they
could take them with them and then at meal time crack it open and eat the
insides, discarding the pastry.  Am I thinking too modern?  I also remember
reading that the pastie would contain the whole meal, including a "dessert"
end - usually cooked fruit.  Again, maybe I"m thinking too modern - miners.

Shoshanah


------------------------------

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